Wondering if anyone has experience with an epulis in an older dog? Have been on forum (often and recently) re great dane with IBS. He also has a sizeable epulis. I thought about dental care under anesthetic last year but felt that, in an 8 year old dane, it might be risky. Didn't do it, now he is 9 and I feel guilty for not having it done last year; however, it doesn't seem to be affecting his ability to eat or his appetite although he does have bad breath. Does anyone think there is a compelling reason to subject him to a general anesthetic at his age for this? Or just keep feeding him a softened diet?

A Dane is fortunate to make 9 yrs old.

I've heard of Danes that were 12, even 14 yrs old but the average is 7-8 if i recall.

I had a GSD x Dane some yrs ago and was happy he made it to nine.

Doubtful if I would chance surgery on a 9 yr old Dane but that's a choice everyone has to make for them selves.

Hopefully others will offer their own opinions.

Owning brachycephalic (flat-faced) dogs as well as seniors of other breeds, I've researched general anesthesia safety procedures for vulnerable dogs intensively.

I saved my post about what I learned.

If you want me to post it here, I'll be very happy to.

On a purely personal basis, I wouldn't put either one of my oldies through the stress of it.

Given the issues your boy already has, I can understand your concern.

But as Bob said, it is only a decision you can make.

My 11-year-old female Doberman -- the one I mentioned in your other thread about your Dane's diarrhea and vomiting -- does have a couple of epuli (I think that's the plural). Hers are the type that follow the gumline over a couple of teeth. They protrude only slightly from the gum itself and are not on a stalk, but they have grown slowly over the last few years. Due to this dog's age and health considerations (she has a serious heart issue), I have elected not to do any surgery on her. My vet is in total agreement -- in fact she is the one who promoted the idea in the first place, expressing the reasons why -- so we are taking a wait-and-watch approach. I do have her on a somewhat soft-ish diet, to lessen the chance of irritating the gumline, but sometimes she will have spells where she is reluctant to eat, and I will put her on totally soft food for several days, or as long as needed.

I also have a 10-year-old male Doberman who has quite a number of large fatty tumors all over his body. Unfortunately, he has also been diagnosed with the same heart issue as my female. Similarly, my vet and I have talked about it and agree that it would be quite a risk to put him under GA to try to remove those fatty tumors, and since, in his particular case, they are most certainly benign, we are electing to not subject him to any unnecessary risks or the discomfort the surgery would entail.

It's one of the most difficult things we face in owning senior dogs. What is the trade-off between doing nothing or subjecting them to surgery? If a sudden, life-threatening emergency were to come up, and surgery was the only thing that could possibly save them, would I do it? I might. I would have to take it on a case-by-case basis, weighing the pros and cons.

So I don't feel qualified to advise you on what you should or shouldn't do in your dog's case, but you asked if anyone had experience with it, so I just thought I'd share. It's never easy dealing with senior dogs with multiple health issues.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Owning brachycephalic (flat-faced) dogs as well as seniors of other breeds, I've researched general anesthesia safety procedures for vulnerable dogs intensively.

I saved my post about what I learned.

If you want me to post it here, I'll be very happy to.

Connie, I have a vague recollection of reading your posts on that topic here sometime in the past. I think there are enough of us on the board now with senior dogs, that we might all benefit from re-reading those. I, for one, would be very grateful if you would post it again -- and this time I will save it someplace off the board for easier access in the future.

Will do! I'll find the post(s) tomorrow in my saved stuff and re-post.

One of my daughters' dogs, a Chi dog, Tinkerbell had minor surgery this past week.

Tinkerbell is 14 yrs old and under the anesthesia her heart stopped for about 10 mins.

With oxygen and excellent work the emergency clinic helped bring her back with no issues.

Old dogs are always a higher risk.

 Quote: Bob Scott

One of my daughters' dogs, a Chi dog, Tinkerbell had minor surgery this past week.

Tinkerbell is 14 yrs old and under the anesthesia her heart stopped for about 10 mins.

With oxygen and excellent work the emergency clinic helped bring her back with no issues.

Old dogs are always a higher risk.

Thank goodness for good vets!

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Will do! I'll find the post(s) tomorrow in my saved stuff and re-post.

From posts I made in 2010 and 2014:

"In February I had a dental workup (cleaning, X-rays, an extraction) done on a senior brachycephalic dog. The gas was Isoflurane and the injectable was Propofol. The dog woke up very quickly after the procedure. (My scares in past years have all been during the post-surgery pre-waking period.) I was extremely happy with this choice."


Also, immediate intravenous access for fast fluid and/or drug administration is crucial. This is what I learned through a couple of dozen hours of researching G/A for seniors and/or flat-face dogs. The most important factors in the successful treatment of cardiovascular or respiratory failure in either the awake or the anesthetized patient, is that IV catheter IN PLACE..

"By placing an intravenous (IV) catheter and line before anesthesia, the veterinarian can ensure that this lifeline is already in place, should the need arise. Anesthetics, fluids, and emergency drugs can be administered through the IV line."

Intravenous fluids help maintain blood pressure in the anesthetized patient, too. And it will replace lost fluids (during surgery, fluids are lost several ways). After surgery, IV fluid therapy speeds the recovery process by diluting the anesthetic agents circulating in the blood stream and by enhancing elimination through the liver and kidneys. Patients who receive IV fluids generally wake up faster. They are also less likely to have kidney problems post-surgery.

Three things leaped at me from every authoritative G/A site (for dogs): Pre-surgery blood workup; an IV catheter in place before surgery; a staff member whose ONLY job in the room is to monitor the dog's G/A (blood pressure, etc.).

1. Pre-procedure bloodwork
2. Catheter already in place, and not needing to be put in place during an emergency
3. Dedicated staff member with only one job: the patient's anesthesia

These are NOT all normal procedure in all vet offices. They are all something I would double-check on ahead of time. The vet may say "of course!" but the vet may also say "we don't usually do that (usually #2 and #3) because of the cost," which is when we owners insist that we want both.