I have a 5 month old male giant schnauzer named Otto from Germany. This is the third Giant I have owned. The first two were females and were great dogs - I used Ed's CD's to rear them. This boy has been a challenge in one particular area, and I'm looking for some advice on how to adjust our approach. He is good on walks, he is good outside with us. But in the house he tends to hyper focus on me and my wife as prey items. He will not focus on a toy or tug, or will only focus on them momentarily. He gets hyper focused on biting us - the hands, an ankle, thigh, or any part of us he can reach. He does this even when he is not stimulated in play. For example, he may just be laying down relaxing after a long walk while I'm reading the paper and he starts in with biting my feet. We try to redirect, but it is only mildly successful and we wind up having to crate him - which maybe is the correct response after all. I think this is just hectic prey drive, which I have not experienced before so not sure how to handle. The only sure fire way of redirecting him from biting us is with food - but I don't want a fat dog. He is smart - he knows sit, down, stay (he'll ignore food until released), speak, paw, and other tricks as well - so the problem must be us. Maybe the answer for now is that he is fine outside and when he's inside he will be in the crate - but I live in the Northeast and winter is approaching. I don't want a small problem with a 5 month 50 pound puppy to turn into a big problem with a 12 month 90 pound dog. Any ideas ? Thanks

Keep him on leash when in the house. We call it tethering.

He needs to understand that the biting is not acceptable behavior and id he is so so on redirection then for me that means firm correction at a level where the dog understands.

At this age it sounds like he's just a high drive puppy that doesn't have and consistent rules AND hasn't quite finished teething.

Firm but fair!

That can be something as a firm "no"or a leash correction. All depends on his response.

Are you familiar with marker training?

Bob, thanks for the reply. A firm "no" works for other things, but not for tamping down his prey drive directed toward us. I have used leash corrections which have had the effect of over stimulating him and sending him into higher drive. Perhaps the corrections have been not been at an appropriate level - he is young so I have been reluctant to over-correct and I've probably been under correcting. I'll adjust and see how that goes.

Yes, familiar with marker training. I've been clicker training him to great effect - except for this misdirected prey drive. I'm not sure how to use a clicker to extinguish a behavior - other than redirect - which as I said he already does for a food reward. I'm looking to eliminate this behavior without food rewards if possible - perhaps the answer is just a high enough correction level. Unless there is another way to use the clicker to extinguish this behavior which I'd be very interested in learning.

Thanks very much.

 Quote: John Collins

Bob, thanks for the reply. A firm "no" works for other things, but not for tamping down his prey drive directed toward us. I have used leash corrections which have had the effect of over stimulating him and sending him into higher drive. Perhaps the corrections have been not been at an appropriate level - he is young so I have been reluctant to over-correct and I've probably been under correcting. I'll adjust and see how that goes.

Yes, familiar with marker training. I've been clicker training him to great effect - except for this misdirected prey drive. I'm not sure how to use a clicker to extinguish a behavior - other than redirect - which as I said he already does for a food reward. I'm looking to eliminate this behavior without food rewards if possible - perhaps the answer is just a high enough correction level. Unless there is another way to use the clicker to extinguish this behavior which I'd be very interested in learning.

Thanks very much.

http://leerburg.com/bitingpuppies.htm

Maybe you're already beyond this, I don't know, but just thought I'd post that link

Thanks, but yes I think we're beyond that. I've raised two well mannered and obedient giant's before this one. This puppy gets a lot of exercise and is fairly well trained for a 5 month old except for this issue. I can easily break him out of his vapor lock by having him do a series of tricks for a food reward. But then he's back at it again.

I think Bob was on to something with the level of corrections. I will try that. I may also have him out of the crate for too long. Perhaps I should increase the number of trips out of the crate but shorten their duration.

Thanks

To much time in the crate will only build his energy intensity when he does get out.
Definitely do not use the crate for punishment.

Have you done any flirt pole work?

That can be great in using up energy.

In correction a pup at this age it has to be at a level that gets through to the dog yet not crush him. Firm but fair!!

If a no works with most everything else then he needs a bit more.

Have you done any retrieve work with him? Any tug work?

Again, the teeth may not be totally in so these exercises may be a but to much right now.

It's an old adage, but we've all heard that a tired dog is a good dog. You mention that he's good outside and good on walks. Is there any time in your schedule to increase the amount of leash-walking you are doing with him, for more exercise?

Also, you mention he is fairly well-trained and knows a number of tricks. This is great, but maybe it's time to up the duration of exercises that keep him in one place, like sit or down, in small increments, of course. Use your mark to reward for longer periods of holding any exercise that keeps his teeth away from you. Have you begun to teach him the "Leave It" command? For my dogs, that one means don't touch or go near whatever it is you want at this moment," and that would include my legs or arms that he wants to bite.

It sounds like your new puppy has a much higher prey drive than you experienced with your previous two, and I understand it can be frustrating. It will take patience, practice, and persistence to train him out of this. Hang in there.

Cheri came up with some great advice.
Teach a "place" command, maybe a rug or something and work on duration with that.
Take the distraction of your hands, ankles, etc away by not having that "place" close enough to you or the family to be temptation.

"Tricks" can be lots of fun for adding to the training but you want to add/chain a couple of those tricks together to extend his performance before the reward.
No real reason not to reward 'tricks" every time but actually doing obedience work and basic control you will need to gradually add time distance and distraction to them so why not do the same with "tricks".
Also. going back to your post you made the comment about getting him out of his "vapor lock" with tricks.
Without actually seeing how and when you do this you may be programing the dog to be a pest with his mouth in order to MAKE you bring on the tricks and treats.
that biting needs a consequence not a path to rewards.

If anything when the dog is calm then mark and reward that.

Thanks for all the advice. Keeping him on the leash while in the house did the trick. He's persistent, so it took about a week of corrections before he got the message. He can now hang around off leash and maintain focus on toys/puppy tug without treating us as the prey items.

It didn't diminish his drive at all so we are at a very happy place now.

Thanks again

Sounds good but just remember that you need to occasionally repeat that process just to keep things fresh.

That goes for ANY sort/style of training.

Think about a big league baseball player that is known for hitting home runs.

Even that guy spends a lot of time in the batting cage in order to stay on top of the game.