Blind, deaf, can’t hardly find his way around the house. Leashed all the time outdoors. Seems to have lost his sense of smell, even. Can’t find his bowl of canned dog food. Can’t find his mat. Yesterday got stuck under an open standing ladder in the garage, bumping off the legs, circling for 1/2 an hr.
Can’t walk him thru a field, grass/weeds hit his eyes.

Seems especially unhappy in the evenings. Wandering aimlessly in the house, bumping off things.

He is not in physical pain...but I’m thinking this maybe shouldn’t go on too much longer.

Thoughts? Has anyone ever had a smart drivey dog that lost all their mental faculties enough that you considered euthanasia for reasons other than pain?

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

Blind, deaf, can’t hardly find his way around the house. Leashed all the time outdoors. Seems to have lost his sense of smell, even. Can’t find his bowl of canned dog food. Can’t find his mat. Yesterday got stuck under an open standing ladder in the garage, bumping off the legs, circling for 1/2 an hr.
Can’t walk him thru a field, grass/weeds hit his eyes.

Seems especially unhappy in the evenings. Wandering aimlessly in the house, bumping off things.

He is not in physical pain...but I’m thinking this maybe shouldn’t go on too much longer.

Thoughts? Has anyone ever had a smart drivey dog that lost all their mental faculties enough that you considered euthanasia for reasons other than pain?

"Has anyone ever had a smart drivey dog that lost all their mental faculties enough that you considered euthanasia for reasons other than pain??

Yes, I sure have, Betty.

Before that, though, I hope that you can find access to a geriatric vet specialist.

Sundowner's Syndrome can be helped (at least for a while, and maybe for a long while) in many dogs, and a geriatric specialist will know the possibilities and which to try better than most GP vets. (I understand that a neurologist or neuropsychologist with emphasis on geriatric/senior dogs may be of equal help.)

There are meds, both prescribed and OTC, enrichment programs, and nutritional therapies. (When a crap-in-a-bag carb-based brand of special food was suggested, I researched the pertinent added ingredient(s) and talked with the vet about adding those to my dog's fresh-food diet, if they weren't already in it.)

Enrichment programs in most cases were simple and didn't require us to do or attend anything away from home.

I've had three with Sundowner's (or other cognitive dysfunction associated with aging), and by far the best help I got was when I finally made my way to a specialist. (Prior to my first Alzheimer's dog, I wasn't really even aware of this growing specialty.)

One did need to be helped to end his confusion and misery, but not before he gained almost six additional months (improved months) first.

There are quite a few therapies, and the geriatric specialist knew which to try first as well as which needed to be altered (or excluded) because of meds the dog was already on and needed to take, but which presented the possibility of bad interactions.



I didn't know about this site at the time: https://dogdementia.com

But I've come across enthusiastic mention of it many times since and explored it pretty thoroughly.

If you look over on the left side of the page, you'll see many topics you'll want to read up on. In fact, the section on https://dogdementia.com/euthanasia/ is just full of info that I wish I had much earlier than I did, including several quality-of-life scales, and even a way to create your own.

I still wish that I had had a check-list or chart or log that would have clarified for me and the vet what areas he improved (or declined) in, and in what kind of increments. This would have helped me with the overall picture, and definitely with knowing which treatments helped and which didn't.


Your little guy is a beloved member of this site's "family," and many of us have clear memories of his feisty personality and his amazing ability to be trained and to learn (all in his own inimitable way!). I know that my heart and hope will be with your Pinker in this.

Even if in ends up that you and he can benefit only from the euthanasia guidance, I'm thinking that can be a significant reassurance resource.


XOXOXOXO

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Thank you, Connie. Will check out your suggestions.


And he still doesn’t like to be touched, not a lot. God forbid you pull on his leash!

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

Thank you, Connie. Will check out your suggestions.


And he still doesn’t like to be touched, not a lot. God forbid you pull on his leash!

He's always had his quirks, hasn't he?



(I deleted a duplicate post.)

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

Blind, deaf, can’t hardly find his way around the house. Leashed all the time outdoors. Seems to have lost his sense of smell, even. Can’t find his bowl of canned dog food. Can’t find his mat. Yesterday got stuck under an open standing ladder in the garage, bumping off the legs, circling for 1/2 an hr.
Can’t walk him thru a field, grass/weeds hit his eyes.

Seems especially unhappy in the evenings. Wandering aimlessly in the house, bumping off things.

He is not in physical pain...but I’m thinking this maybe shouldn’t go on too much longer.

Thoughts? Has anyone ever had a smart drivey dog that lost all their mental faculties enough that you considered euthanasia for reasons other than pain?

Betty, my heart goes out to you and the Pinker. Over the course of three months last fall/winter, I lost both of my senior dogs. In my case, the decision to euthanize was due to serious physical illnesses, cancer and other issues for one and dilated cardiomyopathy for the other. The one with DCM did have cognitive dysfunction and episodes of extreme anxiety/agitation, especially at night. Connie and I talked about it at the time. I really don't know if it was officially canine dementia or not. We managed it with a combination of meds and some adjustments to the nighttime routine.

I was not in the very difficult position you are facing with Pinker, where you are dealing with blindness and deafness, as well. But you ask whether any of us would consider euthanasia for reasons other than pain, and I have to say yes, I certainly would. It would be on a case-by-case basis, of course, and I am not in your shoes. It will come down to a very personal decision by you about his quality of life. At what point does the bad outweigh the good enough that we say it is time? It is such a difficult decision for each of us, one that is probably the most painful part of loving dogs.

I'll be keeping you and your family in my thoughts.

P.S. Connie, thank you for the links to those very helpful sites. I know someday I will be referring to them again.

I love Cheri's response. Connie's links are super helpful also. I think it becomes a mind battle. Any choice you make, you do, for Pinker.
Emotional turmoil is hard. You know, if and when you think about it, when the time is right. My heart goes out to you. They go way to fast. So sorry

Well, in hoping to fend off the end we have a new program. I have him leashed to my belt all day long like I did when he was 10 weeks old. It’s a bore for both of us...he is too big to scoop up and carry, so sometimes he gets tied to a weed in the shade when I’m doing something that just can’t have a dog.

It has helped some, he has slept hard during the day when we come in. But at night, he seems driven to wander. In the morning I find him at the mud room door. Collapsed.

Tonite I will try his crate again. He has seemed so hot, in there. But he might be panting from
nerves rather than “too warm”. It’s hard to know.....

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

Well, in hoping to fend off the end we have a new program. I have him leashed to my belt all day long like I did when he was 10 weeks old. It’s a bore for both of us...he is too big to scoop up and carry, so sometimes he gets tied to a weed in the shade when I’m doing something that just can’t have a dog.

It has helped some, he has slept hard during the day when we come in. But at night, he seems driven to wander. In the morning I find him at the mud room door. Collapsed.

Tonite I will try his crate again. He has seemed so hot, in there. But he might be panting from
nerves rather than “too warm”. It’s hard to know.....

That nighttime wandering suggests Sundowner's to me. Dogs with dementia often suffer from problems with their sleep-wake cycles, I've read, and Sundowner dogs may sleep more during the day and then stay awake and disoriented at night. (There are dopamine-enhancing and anti-anxiety meds that might help some dogs.)

Panting at night from anxiety did happen to my affected dogs before they realized some benefit from meds or supplements. (One did well with SAM-e https://www.webmd.com/diet/supplement-guide-sam-e#1 ... I learned that SAM-e is volatile and should be packaged in sealed blister packs ... vcahospitals.com says that "SAMe is given by mouth in the form of a tablet or a compounded liquid. Give on an empty stomach, at least an hour before feeding or two hours after feeding. If vomiting occurs when dosed on an empty stomach, give future doses with a small amount of food. Do not remove the tablets from the blister pack until ready to use. Do not crush or split the tablets. This medication can take up to a few weeks before full effects are noted, but gradual improvements are usually noticeable after a few days." SAM-e was suggested by the geriatric vet we saw.)

If it's hot at night, maybe a safe fan nearby?

I feel for you both, Betty -- getting help for my affected dogs, especially the first one, was frustrating and involved.