Mace wrote 03/27/2002 07:16 PM
On Leash Searches
#34753 - 03/27/2002 07:16 PM |
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Hello, to everyone. I recently found this site.Nice. I am a k9 handler for about 3 yrs now, and I dont like the method we use. We have had the same trainer for 10 yrs and he was military trained, and refuses to change his style. We search everything on leash and will not take the k9 off leash even if he has the scent. This just seems VERY dangerous to me. I have been pushing and pushing for about 2 of my three yrs. with no luck. Just landing my butt in the Sgts office. Can anyone point me in the right direction to find case law to back up off leash search and officer safety as well as civil liability. No one seems to care if the k9 is dragging the handler into the suspects sites, they just hide behind public preception and liability . Why? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I have no idea. But I am hard pressed to do any searches. Any opinions and HELP in regard to this matter would be appreciated. I believe greatly in the k9 to make our jobs safer but not the way we are doing it. Thanks
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Re: On Leash Searches
[Re: Mace ]
#34754 - 03/27/2002 08:26 PM |
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Mace
I don't know why your trainer would not allow off leash building search, and I"m assuming you are talking patrol work, not drug or bomb. I"m retired military working dog as well, my last assignment was Superintendent of the DOD Dog school, and I know we taught off leash search. Perhaps he is being guided by policies and procedures provided by the chief or city attorney. The purpose of searching off leash is to provide a margin of safety to officers and if course to located and hold or identify where a subject might be hiding. Maybe you can recommend a change to your use of force policies, as to when a dog can be used off leash for a search similar to the conditions that would exist to use pepper or a baton. Often times, just presenting the facts will help solve a situation such as yours.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. |
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Re: On Leash Searches
[Re: Mace ]
#34755 - 03/28/2002 03:44 PM |
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The facts are that on lead searching for felony suspects is discouraged by every knowledgeable K-9 instructor in civilian law enforcement!!! I cannot speak for the military, although I do realize there are base to base policy differences.
It is dangerous, and less effective.
Get a new instructor, come up to date, be sure you have control of your dog (good control and obedience is the key to liability issues not on lead searches....just see the case Kerr vs. West Palm Beach where on leash searches were the norm).
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Re: On Leash Searches
[Re: Mace ]
#34756 - 03/28/2002 08:06 PM |
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In my never-to-be-humble-opinion, police dogs (patrol dogs that is) should be on leash during two circumstances; training and crowd control.
Having a dog on leash doesn’t give you control it gives you restraint. Proper training conducted at regular intervals gives you control.
Besides the obvious danger that it puts you in because of your proximity to the suspect, a search on leash will result in tangles of the leash around furniture, inhibiting our work and that of the dog.
And it doesn’t even prevent unwanted bites. If a suspect is hiding just around a corner your dog will bite him before you even know that he’s there.
As Kevin said, I don't know of any police dog trainers who advocate that their handlers search on leash.
Lou Castle has been kicked off this board. He is an OLD SCHOOL DOG TRAINER with little to offer. |
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Re: On Leash Searches
[Re: Mace ]
#34757 - 03/28/2002 11:59 PM |
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If you don’t follow policy and written G.O.’s you are leaving yourself open to civil liability. I don’t think there is any case law to help you with this problem. If you can’t convince a higher authority to change the rules then you have two choices. I think everyone would agree this is an officer safety issue. Addressing the issue in writing with statistical information and comparisons could have a positive impact.
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Re: On Leash Searches
[Re: Mace ]
#34758 - 03/31/2002 12:16 AM |
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Alot of good responses but I really agree with Alan. It is not wise to go against policy but a good way of changing policies is showing how something is unsafe, illegal, and/or done a better way. Your case sounds like it is unsafe and can be done a better way. Using good solid information like from Kevin, Leerburg, and/or a successful local K9 team may help.
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Re: On Leash Searches
[Re: Mace ]
#34759 - 03/31/2002 07:29 AM |
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First of all, I want to state that I am 100% behind the police and their K-9 partners. These units have proven to be a valuable asset to law enforcement. Unfortunately; the US justice department has their hands in setting policy for departments. Following the April 2001 riots in Cincinnati, Ohio; a group of illinformed citizans who supported the riots sued the city and got the justice department involved. One of the many mandates handed down by the justice department to the city K-9's is to not allow off leash search and not allow the dogs to bite..to only "bark" at the fleeing suspected criminal. Seems the criminals are tired of being bitten by these highly trained dogs and the US Department of Justice is siding with the criminals.
More details of these outrageous mandates can be found in the city's newspaper "Cincinnati Enquirer".
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Re: On Leash Searches
[Re: Mace ]
#34760 - 03/31/2002 02:36 PM |
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I'm glad my state is not affected by the DOJ ruling. That said, the DOJ ruling is not binding, it is merely suggestions. WEll meaning but sadly informed suggestions at that. Our policy for off leash is much like the use of force continuum for any other less-than-lethal force that is used. It does include off leash. In most instances, a building is going to be searched off leash. Yes in places the dog in danger, yes it increases the chance that a dog could be injured. Each handler that has ever sent a dog in a building knows that 'this could be the time' in reality that is why we have invested the number of hard hours in our training program, so when the real time comes, the dog will perform exactly as it is supposed to. Being the dog trainer, I don't want to see any of my dogs injured or killed, being a commissioned officer, I would rather attend a dogs funeral and train a new one that have to attend the funeral or a fellow officer.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. |
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Re: On Leash Searches
[Re: Mace ]
#34761 - 03/31/2002 03:12 PM |
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One of the many mandates handed down by the justice department to the city K-9's is to not allow off leash search and not allow the dogs to bite..to only bark at the fleeing suspected criminal.
This is not really what transpired in Cincinnati in regards to DOJ.
DOJ recommended following the model policy and proceedure recommended by the International Association of Chiefs of Police which includes bark and hold. This was to decrease unwanted bites. A misguided recommendation that comes from DOJ attorneys using the IACP as source material in their review.
Just as back ground information both the North American Police Work Dog Association and the United States Police Canine Assocaition dissagrees with the IACP in placing the B&H into a policy.
The DOJ never told the CPD to do on leash searches and to just let the dogs bark at fleeing felons. Though DOJ is pretty well out of touch they haven't gone this far....yet.
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Mace wrote 04/06/2002 08:28 AM
Re: On Leash Searches
[Re: Mace ]
#34762 - 04/06/2002 08:28 AM |
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Just want to say thanks for the info. to all that responded so quickly. It was all good advise.
THANKS.
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