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bite circle?
#35036 - 04/28/2003 10:34 AM |
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Went to first schutzhund meeting y-day. Many compliments on the dog, much constructive criticsim for me. ("You need a lot of work" is actually what they said...grin)
Anyhow, we did a bite circle with the young guys, and Puppy man was all about it, lots of barking and biting and such. They told me they would do no defense, but they did wave the stick slowly above the dogs' head when he had a bite.
Puppy Man was fine y-day but he sacked out very hard last night and slept in (!!!) this morning. I had to roust him from his crate at 9am-something that has never happened before. Now he's all weirded out-ducking and diving from me
today when we're playing. he'll pull on his tug, but he is clearly afraid today. I've never seen him this skittish.
Is this from the stick thing at the club possibly?
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Re: bite circle?
[Re: alex mankowich ]
#35037 - 04/28/2003 01:24 PM |
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Alex-
I can't remember puppyman's age but assume he is still young. You have to look at a bunch of things. Is this the first time he had anything waved near him or past him that looks like it may hit him but really doesnt? If so you may need to back off and start out slower...farther away...let him realize that it is nothing that is going to hurt him.
Did he come off the bite when it was waved? If so back off as well.
Was he ever struck with anything?
Let us know...hope this helps.
"Justice"
Natz vom Leerburg SchH II
9/9/01 - 7/29/05
I'll meet you at the rainbow bridge... |
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Re: bite circle?
[Re: alex mankowich ]
#35038 - 04/28/2003 01:50 PM |
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How old is the puppy?
Single bite work or in a agitation line.
Really it could be hundreds of things that has nothing to do with his trainng experience.
A dog teaches a boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down. - Robert Benchley
In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog. - Edward Hoagland |
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Re: bite circle?
[Re: alex mankowich ]
#35039 - 04/28/2003 04:13 PM |
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I hate group line agitation. Lazy agitation is what it should be called. Get as many pups done as soon as possible, no matter what you do to mess up each individual dog.
Does anyone have a good reason to do line agitation, am I all wrong?
If it was the stick that caused the problem, which I doubt, you can start habituating the dog to the stick in situations that would show puppyman the stick is no big deal.
Feed him and hold a stick, feed him and touch him with a stick, have a stick on the ground while you do ball or tug play, hold a stick while you do play, have pup walk over a stick on the floor while you play, eventually move stick around the pup while you play. . .get the idea?
Maybe you could ask the helper to do some one-on-one work with puppyman, just a minute or two. At least to get him in the swing of things.
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Re: bite circle?
[Re: alex mankowich ]
#35040 - 04/28/2003 04:33 PM |
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Originally posted by VanCamp, Robert:
I hate group line agitation. Lazy agitation is what it should be called. Get as many pups done as soon as possible, no matter what you do to mess up each individual dog. They don't call it a "circle jerk" for nothing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Mike Russell
BANNED FROM THE LEERBURG BOARD |
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Re: bite circle?
[Re: alex mankowich ]
#35041 - 04/28/2003 04:48 PM |
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I'm with Van Camp. Tell them you do not want to do the group agitation, and would like working 1 on 1. He shouldn't be afraid of you without any stick in your hand though. Its hard to say what happened at your club without being there, but my guess is maybe it was too chatoic for him. I kinda know him, and he is young. He most likely belongs in the grip development stage. See how he does one on one. If it is the stick, do the desensitizing with the stick like VC said. Don't get too upset, I've been there. My dog (at 14 months) came off the sleeve with Bernhard in New Mexico. After me working with her, and about 3 sessions with our helper, she doesn't even blink anymore.
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Re: bite circle?
[Re: alex mankowich ]
#35042 - 04/28/2003 04:51 PM |
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I agree with Robert. Line agitation is lazy agitation and may create more problems in a dog.
I think I ha mentioned in another post that dog aggression could be formed from line agitation work.
People how don't know enough to read the dog and a his bark may think any bark while on an agitation line is good and encourage more of it. Little do they know, that their dog is thinking, " I guess I am on this line to kick these other dogs around!"
Think about a dog barking at another dog online and their owner saying: GOOD BOY!!!
Besides, bite-work is intricate work with specific needs based on the individual puppy or dog and takes more focus then running around and flapping about to build the dog right.
That is why I asked.
A dog teaches a boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down. - Robert Benchley
In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog. - Edward Hoagland |
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Re: bite circle?
[Re: alex mankowich ]
#35043 - 04/29/2003 02:26 PM |
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heh heh-"circle jerk"-indeed.
Today I am thinking it's possible he picked up a little bug from one of the dirty common dogs there-he's got the squirts now. Or else maybe he just got himself over-stimulated, as Deanna suggested. he's only a little nervous today, was up early like usual.
I did think the bite circle was a little wierd/chaotic. I did think he wasn't sure intially he wasn't sure if he was there to bite the other puppies or the toys-if not for the whip sounds, he probably wouldn't have focused on the helpers at all.
Puppyman, who is 9 months old now, tends to be "doggy" anyway, and he put his hair up and barked at the other dogs when we were leaving. I could do without that.
I think the thing may be just to go and watch and have them watch me work him one on one at the end. The dog is genetically right-it's me who needs to be learning. There are some good handlers and trainers there, I can suck up some knowledge from them if I hang out long enough.
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Re: bite circle?
[Re: alex mankowich ]
#35044 - 04/29/2003 09:33 PM |
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Alex, you have the right idea, just go there and let him watch what's going on for the first few visits. Play with him off in a corner so he gets comfortable. At this age do correct him (use that prong) when he goes off on other dogs, if not this will cause future problems.
Maggie |
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Re: bite circle?
[Re: alex mankowich ]
#35045 - 05/04/2003 04:52 PM |
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Hey all.
Thanks for your feedback, and here is the update:
Puppyman started squirting blood and feces out the other day and tests showed an abnormally high bacteria count. Vet thinks probably stress-related-she asked whether he'd had a particularly stressful or exciting day recently. Gave him some acidophilus supplements and he calmed down, but I won't do the bite circle thing ever again!
Kind of a happy ending here though-I talked with one of the guys, and we're gonna form our own little group of more serious and dedicated schutzhund people-no bitework at all for a month or so, just talk and tracking, obedience for the older dogs. Once we feel ready, we want to bring in some quality helpers to work us in bitework-(any of you good trainer/helper folks coming through Virginia this summer who might be interested in spending a day with us....? Paid...)
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