Can anyone give me any ideas on how to bring out the defense drive in my shepard? She is only 9 months old and shows little to no defense drive. I understand that if a dog doesn't have it it will never show up. I just want to see if she has the drives needed to head towards a sch1. Her prey drive was about nonexistent, but after a lot of work it's at a point where it's almost respectable. I hope to be able to do the same thing with her defense drive. Thanks for the help in advance!

My pup is about the same age as yours... he will be 9 months on the 19th, at this tender age not much defense is around yet... everyone I have asked about this say's the same thing... Defense shows up between 8 and 18 months of age "Usually" you should see some indications such as being defensive of home turf, your car, backyard at night etc....

If the prey work was weak as you say.. just keep that up, I think you would be making a mistake working Defense at such a young age, that's just too much pressure IMHO and not enough brains to handle it. Praise defensive actions, Yes. Work them, No.

Ok, where do we start. At 9 months with a female, you might just be lucky that she displays no defense in the way I think you are implying. At that age, and her being a female I would not worry much. Some dogs show some barking and stuff when people go by the car or yard, but most females, unless they are nervy and unsure, which many are, do not display defense or aggression. I would just wait a little longer. What bloodlines is this dog from? This might help to answer the question?
Whoever told you this about a 9 month old female, I would question thier judgement in saying that it will never show up if there is nothing showing there now. It is not really true. This is not to say I have not seen females that are showing civil and a little defense that are nice dogs at that age, but these are far and few between. I also would not say that if there is nothing there now that it will be there later! I like a female that has alot of prey drive and confidence at that age. At that age I would be cautious in "testing" to see any type of defense. You must understand drive and drive thresholds. This is important for the decoy too. Too much pressure, and you could break the dog. This holds even more water for a female. There is a bitch in this country that scored over 292 in every Sch trial she ever went to to my understanding. This bitch was trained by one of the best trainers in the world. She had great prey and was civil. The new owner put too much stress and defense on her coupled with alot of compulsion with the electric, and during a hold and guard in a trial, the dog would not engage the blind and kinda spooked barked at the decoy. To say that this bitch is not a great female would be foolish, only that her training was not done right. To say that this could not happen to a male, would be incorrect, but I find it more likley to happen to a female. My point is even a seasoned female can be messed up with to much defense. A 9 month old pup; I would wait and see. There are ways in bringing defense out when she is older, some not so nice, and I would rather not train in defense if I had to do this to make a bitch "agressive".
It may be hard, but I would just wait unitl she is two years old. I have seen bitches get civil after that age when there was nothing there or little before. At that age they can handle the stress a bit better. Some can handle it younger, but at least wait unti the dog is biting good on the sleeve, taking a drive from the decoy, and barking well. When you start protection, you might wake it up and the bitch might start to show some defense then. It is anyones guess, and hard to answer over the computer.
There are alot of people on this board, so let's see what others have to say. Good luck.
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Great advise Mike.... it should be clear now that 9 months is way to young to mess with defense!

I appreciate the help. I am not planning to work her in defense yet. The dog is nothing special when it comes to bloodlines. I just wanted to see if she had the drives needed for schutzhund protection work before I started to sink a lot of hours of work into her.

I absolutely agree with what has been said. I for one can attest to the problems that can arise when you bring out defense too early. My Rott( which is more defensive by nature than a GSD) was kicked into defense wayyyyyyyy too early due to the helper not being familiar with Rotts and my inexperience in the sport. I won't say that he was/is ruined, but we have some serious problems to overcome that probably wouldn't have been out but for the poor foundational work.

As Bernhard said this weekend, an ideal dog would be a 50/50 balance of prey/defense while working, with the ability to switch in and out of the respective drives when appropriate. While working my dog is probably 70/30 defense to prey. Early pressure on the dog will tilt the scales drastically and create problems.

Take it from one who made the mistakes, stay away from the pressure with this young dog and keep it fun and positive or you'll be sorry later.

Could you eleborate more on Bernhards feeling on drives. What would he describe as fighting drive? Anything on undercover-sleeves and bodysuits for schutzhund?
As for the dog in question, you really do not need defense in hte way I think you want it to compete in the sport. If she has strong enough prey and your goal is to have fun with your dog, then I think you can accomplish this with a prey dog.

Mike,
not trying to be a smartass here, but you really should attend a seminar with Bernhard if you are so interested in his feelings. He doesn't have a set mark that works for every dog, but he did mention that 50%d and 50%P could be balanced in some dogs, but most for sport can do fine with 70%p 30%d. He will only train good dogs with good handlers in aggression or fight. 80% of the points in SchH protection come from prey drive.

Well someone might not always be able to get away to go to a seminar, whether it be work or financial reasons. I'm sure there's SO much one can learn from a man like Mr. Flinks from what I've read here, but I'm sure one can learn alot from the Leerburg videos too. I know they've helped me.

Also I think Mr. Frawley's wrote quite a bit about alot of this on the site. I would think since the two are as close as they are with their training that the views are probably very similar if not the same.

Well Mike, I just noticed from your profile that you don't sound like a spring chicken in this so I guess talk to Bernhard directly perhaps. I think he was on the board recently.

Really I did not motice his post. Was he under his own name? If I can I will attend his seminar, but Indiana was a bit far for me to travel, for the sake of time, and since someone brought his view into it, it caught my eye, so I asked a question. I will one day attend his seminar, it sounds like a good learning experience.