I usually go shooting on my five acres of lands its miles away from the city. I've set up a nice firing range and shoot there often. Like most of my neighbors in that part of the woods.

The Problem is during live fire drills, I usually have the GSD in a down or sit 10 yrds behind me. I use to train this with the dog tied down. He did so well that I trying this off leash. Here is the problem.

When firing the dog sees targets falling and debri ricocheting of the back stop, and here he comes on to the range climbing the logs and looking for the whatever moved sometimes bring fallen plactic bottles once fill of water back to me. He doesn't seem to move in the rapid fire sessions but in the slow target sessions, here he comes. I see the potential for danger here, but we are almost there, in reality I want him to approach the thing being shot. But not until I say so.

What would be some the solutions here? I don't want to put him inside the jeep (with the scary bitch, off leash she up under the jeep and prefers to be inside it), because I want him to get use to gun fire in his training. I don't want to keep him tied out because that not how I envison using him.

Notice if I fire in blanks he does not move, only when he see things exploding and falling or debri kicking up.

Is this too tempting for a dog??

All this hypotheitcal but so is protection training. Who really wants his/her dog to bite someone? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You might be able to get some good ideas by checking out a few books about training hunting retrievers. They're trained to mark where the bird falls but not go to fetch until released by verbal command. Sounds really similar to what you're wanting to do.

Thanks Lisa

That does sound a little like what I want, I don't really want him to retreive anything on the firing range, but in a real situation I may would want him to check things out or just stand back until I can check things out. So I really don't want him to retreive anything just down on guard if need be.

Oh hell, I'm just making excuses for him, I don't want him to move until called.

Really Lisa I want a solid down I've upped the distraction level to include scattering debri and spattering bottled water from a gun being fired. But if I took away the bang and stuff its still a case of not having a solid down.

I'll check out how they do it, they might have some answers. I've seen them on TV the Outdoor sportmans shows. Really amazing, some of those dog don't even get up and wag their tail until asked to retreive and they do it over and over again almost tireless. I bet its done with e-collar I mean all that action and no responce from the dog, come on.

Thanks I was clueless.
Am I asking for too much, if not is there a method of training the down under this under heavy distraction??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

i think most dogs understand the concept of "wait". after you put him in a down, maybe it is just a simple matter of inserting another verbal command into your routine.....whatever it takes to make him stay in a down. then another verbal command that releases him ("go" or whatever) so that he knows he cannot break the down until you say so. or you could train him to down while someone else is shooting and when you are sure he's got it, then trade places with them and try it again. just an idea.

Don,
I think for what you said you want, you just have to do a better job of teaching the down. Start with less temptations/distractions and increase them gradually. Have someone else fire at targets so you can safely correct your dog if he breaks his down, as soon as he breaks. Correcting him after he has already reached the fallen targets is much to late.

Chad His down is about 97% balls rolling and other dogs and people running doesn't seem to bother his down, He does the long wait handler out of sight, treat 5-6 ft. away down. He won't touch it until released. I can even throw his favorite toy he'll stay down. Running cats still bother his down and this live fire drill, these two distractions seems to throw him.

Pat the "down - stay" should do it, I use the a release command "get it". I use to use "Ok" but I use that too much in general conversation and he be a smart ass a break his down whenever he heard it. Are you saying use another command with these? If it will work I'll try it, after you garantee that it will work. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Both of you brought up using another person shooting and me on lead with the dog. He does well here the problem exist when I'm firing the times when the other guy is there firing doesn't seem to bother him.

He will stay with me down or sit as long as he with me, is this a form or handler dependacy?

Maybe I should swicht the order and see what happens. Me shooting and them holding the lead.

Another thing does all this shooting effect their hearing, like it does with humans????

Don,
If he doesn't break his down when others are firing, it definitely sounds like he has figured out that when you are firing he can get away with it. Have you used an electric collar with him before? If so, you could have someone else work the collar while you shoot, or even do it yourself with the help of a small mirror.

Loud noises over long periods of time will damage hearing. A couple of shots now and then wouldn't be a problem. But if you are exposing the dog to a lot of gunfire on a regular basis, it can hurt its ears, just like it could hurt yours.

Chad and all thanks for your input, I think the e-collar may be the way to go the only person besides trainers that want to try to discipline him is my wife, he respects her well. Most of the non-dog guys don't want to be the guy he think is yanking his chain/leather leash. I keep them thats almost the safest place to be <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> .

Chad I think that might work I had just bought a cheap one that doesn't work well due to a dog swinming incident. I'll have to buy another one and practice this. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Is there any particular way I should setup the stimuli should it be light or mild range.

How far away does the e-collar handler needs to be???

Will e-collar make a dog bite the closest person he does not know? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Don,
You first need to train your dog to understand the e-collar before you ever think about using it to solve this individual problem. I'm sure that there are many posts on this board that go into proper training techniques. I always make sure the dog understands three concepts with the e-collar before anything other than very, very mild stimulation is used: Stay, stay with me, and go away from me. Just slapping on the collar to use as a punishment will not give you the results you want.

Chad got the e-collar I've never used this type training devise on him. I used it to correct the female RottieX breaking the down and it worked well, when ever she began to raise I'd zap her she learned pretty quick and stayed with her. Until she went swiming with it on, it wasn't water proof a didn't fair to well afterwards.

He understands the three commands that you mentioned but how does that help him stay in the down?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />