I watched a "fun" agility show this weekend and was curious about the methods used to train. The handlers were allowed to bring training aids and train in the ring. Even in the open and excellent classes, where the dogs had to be already titled to run, a significant number of them ran wildly around the ring, some inventing their own course, taking various obstacles as they saw fit, others just running around.
In every case the handler reaction was the same, calling calling calling, and food reward and praise when the dog finally came. Then on to more fun running the course. Food rewards were given at pretty much every obstacle, except in jumps, where they were thrown over the jump in front of the dog. Only one dog ran the course with his handler holding a ball. No one used e-collars.
I know it was "only" a training event, and I know it was AKC. Does this preclude correcting the trained dog when it errs? (such as running a new and dog-planned course). Is agility so complex that the dog who gets corrected for doing his own thing doesn't want to get back in the ring? Or is correcting the dog at any AKC event bad protocol?
Also I saw dogs wizz on the course-does AKC disqualify for this?
This is not in any way meant to bash on agility-my mom does this with her dog and has a great time, and there were some super dogs out there! Just curious, seemed vastly different from training for schutzhund.
I can't imagine giving a "good boy!" to a dog who has just been knowingly wrong. Maybe ignoring the behavior and just quietly returning him to the kennel-wouldn't that be more effective to encourage the right course run next time if indeed the dog enjoys doing it?

The only collars you are allowed to use in agility are flat buckle (snap together) collars. All others are forbidden. Agility attracts a high percentage of "purely positive" people. Many think that if they correct a dog in any way, the dog will become worried about making a mistake and thus will run slower to be more correct, and they want the dog to go full out. But many dogs take total advantage of their owners and get 'the zoomies', pee, sniff, greet everyone, etc. This always drove me nuts! There's a huge difference between not correcting a dog when he takes the wrong jump (since almost every time it's the handler's fault anyway!), and allowing blatant disobedience and lack of attention to you. For some, it's a moral choice to never correct the dog and for others, they simply don't know that you can strike a balance between using motivational training and still having your dog's respect.

This is my question also. Am I going to get crucified by the other handlers for correcting an ignored recall? I don't know how it all works, but will she be onleash for some time, therefore I won't need to worry about recall? She will need a whole bunch of exposure to this setting before the distraction aspect won't automatically set her up for failure. She's only 8 mos. but too old for the puppy class.

Thx

I corrected an ignored recall with a long line and a prong collar. I set the dog up in a situation were she has ignored the recall before, in my case a fence fight while doing off leash work. She started to fly towards the fence I gave the command "HEIR" which was ignored I gave it again and popped the hell out of her. did that a few times havn't had a problem since

Yes, I do correct her with a prong, and she's almost perfect except for the rabbit factor LOL. We are working on that. That just might be an e-collar situation. I went to one of this clubs competitions with the prong because I didn't know how she was going to react to all those dogs. I got a few stares. At one point, I was giving her a recall command on a long line, which she responded to, and when she got to me I treated her. I was told by one of the head honcho's to treat her for a minimum of 30 seconds so that coming to me will be better than anything else. I know for a fact that, even tho she has a great food drive, her prey and "doggie" drive are greater. Food isn't going to cut it. She is headstrong, and very hard. (ran loose in Mexico for 4 mos. then in the hands of a PETA person, crated 24/7 and wouldn't dream of abusing her enough to teach her manners).

I know I won't be allowed to bring my prong to the training, and I am concerned about the posts on here about the free-for-all atmosphere in agility. I guess I will just have to try the class out and risk losing my money if they tell me I'm not allowed to correct my out-of-control mutt. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Christi,

I'm just finishing an into to agility class, it is 8 weeks. I primarily signed up as an opportunity to expose my dog to other people/dogs in a controlled environment. I work her at home on walks with a prong collar. I've been following the recommendations from Ed's basic obedience DVD. The agility training is strictly motivational. However, if my dog "reacts" to another dog while we are waiting for our turn on the equipment, she gets corrected. She is wearing a flat leather collar in this class. Because the sessions have been gradual, and we keep our dogs on lead, I have not had any issues. So while on the equipment, if a mistake occurs, you don't correct, you just proceed, and motivate, with toys/food etc.

It seems to be a good mix for my dog. She is doing very well, I'm going to continue with the classes.

Linda

I haven't done AKC agility events, but I've done the USDAA agility, and there is no peeing in the ring without a disqualification. I've been going to the same trainer for 3 years and everything is all motivational. If your dog takes a wrong jump, its always a 'good boy!' and try again to get it right. It is almost always handler error, you get too far ahead of your dog, hand signal too late, wrong body language, it isn't so much a verbal error, as the dog reads your body. I had questioned the training in the beginning not being able to give a correction, but I really enjoy it and I can see the difference in the dog. I use treats and toys with praise and I have and always will correct my dog for no recall. I see many don't, and it seems like they continually have problems with recall. One person at class has recall problems and he has crated his dog for "punishment", but I have yet to see it make a difference with his dog.
Christi-
Get your obedience solid. Agility class should start out on leash before going off leash. I know there are some places that do allow prongs in agility class,(no collars in a show) I know there is one large club near me that does, it isn't something I would do myself. There were a couple gals from that club that came to ours for a while but they didn't stay. They didn't use any motivational training at all. They didn't use treats or toys and you never heard any praise either. Their prongs and choke collars were banned from our class because they never stopped 'popping' their dog, and their dogs just weren't excited about what they were doing. I think the trainer had allowed it hoping they would see a different method of training, but I think the change was too much for the handlers to understand. Their dogs were very well behaved and obedient, just didn't look or act happy, they were very slow with the obstacles, and wouldn't work away from the handler, and you want your dog to get out and work away from you to get the speed.
I started with the very small shows, under 100 dogs, very relaxed atmosphere, and as prepared as I thought we were for the first one, at least with the obstacles, we weren't prepared for someplace new. I was thankful my dog didn't run wild as many of the others did, we got out there and he stood like a statue and didn't move. I thanked the judge said it was our first show and hoped the next event went better, and it did. If you are worried about your dog taking off make sure the area is secured/enclosed. Most of the outdoor ones I've been to aren't.
With my pup I have now I did the marker training, we are going to OB class now and I'm proofing with a prong, and he's doing super. I plan on continuing the OB classes and starting agility in the spring with him with no jumping. Agility is one of the best things I've done with my dogs, it's fun for me and them, and I can't wait for spring so we can start again.
Sue

Hey thanks for the replies.

I think this will be a great thing for us. Motivation has thus far been no problem, she has wonderful drive. And I wouldn't dream of correcting her on a course error. It's nice to hear that appropriate correction (ie aggression and recall) is done by at least some agility people. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Am I going to get crucified by the other handlers for correcting an ignored recall?

*sour look* Maybe.

I was in agility class-I plan on competing with my ACD. Well, we've done a lot of obediance since I got him as a demon dog at the shelter, but obviously he's not perfect. So we were on course, waiting for our turn to do an obstacle when Aussie starts cutting up--I think he tried to go investigate something. I told him to sit, he ignored me, I growled at him to come, he ignored me, I walked over and gave him a yank on his tab, he remembered I existed--that sort of thing (we had moved to off leash training, since usually the dogs in the class were well behaved, and I think I turned my back on him for a half a second--never again, mind). And I get ripped a new one by the trainer because "we want the agility course to be a postive place for the dog!"

Yeah lady, but the last thing I need is for this dog who's smarter'n you are to learn that I won't correct him for misbehaving on the agility field--oh yeah, that'll be fun. I can picture it now.

This from someone who's titled dogs in obediance and stated in the beginning that she expects dogs to be under control. Yeah right.

So yeah...that's my experience. I just looked at her and she stopped talking. If they do try to "crucify" you, tell'em you'd rather have a dog that minds and stays safe than a dog who's as happy as can be. A dead dog isn't very happy. Or maybe that's too blunt...hmmm.

^_^

Cheers y'all.

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gave him a yank on his tab, he remembered I existed--that sort of thing

LMAO That's extacly what's going to happen. In a year or two I'm sure we will have it all staightened out, but by then I'll be dead from trying to keep her active little mind and body busy. I haven't tried fillet mignon yet for treats. Maybe that will keep her focused on me and keep me from getting ripped a new one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />