Looking for ideas on how to slow a fast tracker down. Tried using a prong collar which helps somewhat. Dog gets a little crazy with e-collar. Have to be fair with corrections, or the dog will come after you. Dog works with a lot of intensity in the track, deep nose, etc. just pulls like a train and can't slow him down. Tried food on the track, various patterns to mix up the tracks etc. At a loss here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

John, you should be controlling the speed at which your dog works the track.

At what point do you use corrections when working a track?? Just curious as I've never enterained the idea of using corrections when tracking.

Try using multiple articles of various sizes and type close together. Be ready to correct if the dog over-shoots an article. When you have the speed under control lay serpentine tracks that requires concentration by the dog to control the speed. Try to maintain a loose line to avoid the opposition reflex which can also make the dog think a correction may be coming so he slows down. Only correct for and work on one problem at a time.

Have you tried distance work (like LOOOONG straight tracks) or doing really difficult (lots of turns and cut backs)?

John, If you're not up to long tracks, try letting the track age for a half an hour or so. This should slow him down as there is less odor available.

Howard

The dog actually belongs to a frined of mine. He is a very hard dog, and 3 times SchH3. We tracked together this weekend and we are both scratching our heads as to what to do with him.

Butch: Can't control his speed, that is the problem. Dog will literally pull you around the track. Usually his handler tells him verbally to slow down, and may pop the leash. This works for a minute but the dog starts tracking fast again. Like I said, the dog is very intense in the track but his speed is costing him points in trials.

Alan: We have done all you suggested, none of it works. Serpentine tracks, articles as small as a penny, etc. I'll have to mention the loose line. Usually the line is very taut.

Mike: Yes, many varitey of tracks. Dog still wants to pull. The only time he tracks his best is when he has been worked prior to the track and worn down some. However, it takes a lot, and I mean a lot to wear this dog down.

Howard: Like I mentioned dog is SchH3, so the tracks are aged for an hour at the minimum. The problem with the speed is sometimes he blows a corner, or misses some of the articles. In trial, he doesn't miss articles becasue they are large. This is a dog you have to track about 3 times and on the 3rd time he will probably be tired enough to slow down and he tracks his best.

In addition, the dog is collar wise too. You can track him with a prong collar for weeks, but he knows when he is wearing just a fur saver, and he will test you to see if he is going to get corrected which you obviously cannot do in trial. Then it's off to the races.

Maybe it's just the dog's nature to track so fast. Just can't seem to figure it out.

Of course, knowing the history of the dog is important and makes a big difference. The taut line may be creating opposition reflect in addition to the fact the dog may realize that he doesn't/can't receive a correction on the tight line. Again, I would place a large article, then several small articles, may be even hidden, very close so I don't even have to move if he passes them so I can correct him. Soon he should be getting up and slowly checking for the small articles. The line needs to be loose for corrections, the reason for keeping it that way all the time. Watch his tail, it tells the tale of his drive and concentration. It is not a question of wearing him down, it is a matter of making him concentrate to avoid corrections. Once the pace has been controlled the corners should not be a problem. If they are then correct for over-shooting the corners. Again, corrections for only one problem at a time.
Double line him to fool him about being collar wise,after all the other problems are corrected. One line on the fur saver, one line on the pinch. Tight line the fur saver for tracking, be ready to correct with the pinch collar for errors. The fast tracking may be avoidance behavior, now he is being successful.
Find an experienced trainer that knows and understands obedience tracking and can go with you on the track to offer guidance.

One thing that has worked for me is teaching a command AWAY FROM THE TRACK that means slow down.

You mention that the handler uses a word and pop while the dog is tracking, I feel that the dog needs to be completely solid on this before adding it to the track.

I use the word "easy" while out walking on a long line...let the dog pull ahead and then say EASY in a calm voice and then pop the line...for a dog like you describe this will take some time. You don't want to pop the dog so hard he thinks about heeling, just give some slack in the line. I think the dog needs to learn what you want from him, not just get a correction. If he is like most driven dogs, just getting a correction loads him up and using food and articles just band-aids the problem temporarily during training but when the tracks are set up like they will be in a trial(no food and normal number of articles) many times the old behavior comes right back.

I used this with my old SchH 3 female Elka and also use this with Xando...he pulled like a freight train on the track when I first started working with him. This is something you can say softly (so the judge doesn't hear <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) in a trial to remind the dog to slow down ....I did it in most every trial I was in with Elka ...

Just an idea to try! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Tracking too fast may start off as part of the dogs nature, but if the dog is still doing it and has three SchH III trials under it's belt, it's now firmly a training issue.
And as the dog has been allowed to track at a rapid rate for it's past training, getting it to slow down is going to be 10x the work to correct now then it would have been if that problem had been tackled in the early training days.
Time spent in foundation work always saves a trainer a ton of time down the line.....

And a "collar wise" dog is also a training issue. Dogs that are looking forward to a future of training/ work need to be wearing dummy E collars as a four month old, and need to be wearing the prong ( not necessarily attached to ) also at a young age.
A collar wise dog is something that we as trainers usually create by skipping needed steps in early training.

And if you're buying an older dog for training, the above issues should be tested for, of course.

Thanks for the responses, I have a couple of new ideas and that is what I was looking for.

Alan: Double line handling is worth a try, don't think thats been done yet. Will let you know how we do with it.

Cindy: Dog is either told "Easy" or "Slowly" and clearly understands what is meant, but if you can't correct him, he is simply going to do it his way.

Will: I think your right, it probably is a training issue to some degree, but also the dog. Same handler has titled many dogs some with perfect scores in tracking so it's not like we are talking about a novice handler. The problem is correcting the dog. The dog is so hard it just doesn't care.