Stig Andersson wrote 07/03/2002 12:39 PM fight/defence #39483 - 07/03/2002 12:39 PM
Stig Andersson Webboard User Reg: 02-03-2002 Posts: 248 Loc: Sweden Offline	I think it´s a bit tricky to see when a dog works in fightdrive, defense or active preydrive. A good dog should work in fightdrive during the bark and hold, but how could you see if he works in fight or defense, any signs to look after? I´ve read all about this, but it´s not so easy to see it in real life. Have Ed done any video that clearly shows the difference in fight and defense, or a dog that just looks though but actually only works in verý active preydrive. Regards
Top
Brad Gargis wrote 07/03/2002 02:54 PM Re: fight/defence [Re: Stig Andersson ] #39484 - 07/03/2002 02:54 PM
Brad Gargis Webboard User Reg: 02-09-2002 Posts: 659 Loc: Offline	I hate to add to this, because I'm probably wrong with being so new, BUT I'm going to jump on it anyway. I think Prey is simply a game to the dog. Defense is when the dog is fighting for his life, as if he thinks his life is on the line. I think the difference with that to the Fight Drive is the willingness to want to attack or advance against the fighting partner. In the tapes "The First Steps of Bite Training," and "Training Personal Protection Dogs" it should talk about these things. I'm sure in several other videos it does also.
Top
Pete Felknor wrote 07/03/2002 03:27 PM Re: fight/defence [Re: Stig Andersson ] #39485 - 07/03/2002 03:27 PM
Pete Felknor Webboard User Reg: 07-13-2001 Posts: 495 Loc: Deerfield, WI Offline	I think you hit the nail on the head, Brad... Ed has said that "when you see a dog working in fight drive, you'll know it." The dog shows a real intensity toward the helper that is lacking in most dogs--and at the same time, radiates utter confidence in his ability to "defeat" the helper. A great example of a dog working in fight drive can be seen in the 1997 Schutzhund USA Nationals video ("The Trial from Hell"). Watch Gary Hanrahan's dog Pirol in the protection work--a 99-point performance and deservedly so. The dog is working in fight drive from the minute he arrives on the field until the minute he leaves. It's a breathtaking, unforgettable spectacle. Pete Felknor
Top
Vince P. wrote 07/03/2002 03:41 PM Re: fight/defence [Re: Stig Andersson ] #39486 - 07/03/2002 03:41 PM
Vince P. Webboard User Reg: 07-13-2001 Posts: 1050 Loc: NJ Offline	If you get any of Ed's tapes with Kevin you will see his dog CJ that is a poster dog for working in true fight drive.
Top
Brad Gargis wrote 07/03/2002 03:43 PM Re: fight/defence [Re: Stig Andersson ] #39487 - 07/03/2002 03:43 PM
Brad Gargis Webboard User Reg: 02-09-2002 Posts: 659 Loc: Offline	LOL, Well I guess I'm learning something here. Tell Ed it looks like those tapes are paying off. Which tape is CJ on?
Top
Stig Andersson wrote 07/03/2002 03:55 PM Re: fight/defence [Re: Stig Andersson ] #39488 - 07/03/2002 03:55 PM
Stig Andersson Webboard User Reg: 02-03-2002 Posts: 248 Loc: Sweden Offline	But it seems like there is only small difference in a dog working in figh or defense if you look at it in the bark and hold, I mean the way the dog looks and act during that exersice, both could look "serious", with no hectic prey-bark. When the dog is on the bite, what is the difference in a figh versus defence dog the way it look and act?
Top
Pete Felknor wrote 07/03/2002 04:07 PM Re: fight/defence [Re: Stig Andersson ] #39489 - 07/03/2002 04:07 PM
Pete Felknor Webboard User Reg: 07-13-2001 Posts: 495 Loc: Deerfield, WI Offline	Stig-- A dog working in fight drive will have the deeper, "more serious" bark of a dog working defensively... but the dog's POSTURE radiates absolute confidence, which is where you can see that the dog is not working out of defense. A dog doing a bark and hold in fight drive is very, very forward--literally trying to push the helper back into the blind. A dog working defensively would be trying to maintain a distance from the helper. The grip of a dog working in fight may not always be as "full" as a dog working in pure prey, but you will not see the mouthy, unsettled behavior of a dog working out of defense either. Have I managed to confuse you more? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Pete
Top
Vince P. wrote 07/03/2002 04:10 PM Re: fight/defence [Re: Stig Andersson ] #39490 - 07/03/2002 04:10 PM
Vince P. Webboard User Reg: 07-13-2001 Posts: 1050 Loc: NJ Offline	Actually, there is quite a visible difference in the two drives especially during the bark and hold. Don't feel bad because I remember how frustrated I was when viewing one of Ed's tapes and he pointed out how this dog changes from defense to prey for one split second as a rock bounces off a fence post. I must have watched it 100 times before I had any clue what he was taking about.
Top
Vince P. wrote 07/03/2002 04:15 PM Re: fight/defence [Re: Stig Andersson ] #39491 - 07/03/2002 04:15 PM
Vince P. Webboard User Reg: 07-13-2001 Posts: 1050 Loc: NJ Offline	Pete: "A dog working defensively would be trying to maintain a distance from the helper." Be careful with that one. Because a dog in fight drive might keep his distance because he views the helper as a fighting partner. You gave still be forward while staying back. My 3rd grade english teacher would kill me for that one. LOL.
Top
Pete Felknor wrote 07/03/2002 04:25 PM Re: fight/defence [Re: Stig Andersson ] #39492 - 07/03/2002 04:25 PM
Pete Felknor Webboard User Reg: 07-13-2001 Posts: 495 Loc: Deerfield, WI Offline	Good point, Vince... I think the difference here (Ed? Kevin?) could be that a PSD is taught to maintain a distance in the B&H because the helper is a "deadly adversary". Sport dogs don't necessarily develop this view... I think somebody once said it's like a boxer going into a ring. Not a deadly situation, but one where you will want to fight your best. Pete
Top

Previous Topic

Index

Next Topic

Page 1 of 2 12>>

When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.

Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional. The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.

Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc. By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.