I was just wondering if there are any police officers, who have had problems with assailants and there police dogs.

First off, I am not a police officer, I am a 23 year old paralegal. I have also been bodybuilding for roughly 3 years.

I only bring this question up, because I remember watching an episode of "Cops" where there were like 5 police officers with a K9 in foot pursuit of an assailant. They sent the dog after him, and the camera guy made it to the guy about the same time the dog did, (way before the cops!) and when the dog went to grab him he grabbed it with both hands by the scruff of the neck and actually threw it over a 6 foot stockade fence that was behind him. Then the cops got to him and maced him, and he was finally "persuaded" to go down. The dog was stuck in the yard with the fence that they were adjacent to, and one of the cops went to go get it. Needless to say the cops were absolutely amazed by this guys feat.

Alright, granted this guy was an ex-marine, and held a black belt in some form of martials arts, and he was probably 28-30 years old, 5'11" and 220lbs rock solid, and the mace barely affected him. He should be considered a rare case.

But it was your average 75-80lb. GSD.

I am definately not claiming to be the biggest or strongest guy in the gym at 6'2" 200lbs. But I know I do lateral raises (dumbell in each hand, raising them straight out in front of me) with 30lb dumbells. Thats 60lbs. with my arms completely straight. an easy 90-100 with them bent at a 45 deg. angle.

Now you mean to tell me that with my adrenaline going, I couldn't throw a dog over a 6 foot fence.

We've all heard of mothers rolling full size cars over to free their trapped baby.

And we've all had freightening experiences where time seemed to go into slow motion, and we've had a heightened sense of awareness.

Maybe it's just me, but what this tells me is that if a GSD was coming after me, if I grabbed him before he grabbed me, which with their speed and tenacity would require quite a bit of concentration, and a clear mind, I could throw him around like a rag doll.

Don't get me wrong, I would never intentionally harm a police dog, mainly because I would never be in a situation where I would have to, namely because I am not a criminal!

Please don't flame me because I may be questioning yoour beloved breed. I am just raising a theory I have seen proven on national television.

Sincerely,
John Stowe

A lucky catch?

My dog, a Leerburg male, 6 years of age and protection trained will hit you with his full body running the better part of 25mph. He goes about 80 pounds. If anyone catches him and chucks him over a fence, I'm not interested in fighting them either.

All kidding aside, I didn't see the tape and other factors could have added to this result.
Bad guy high on crank or dust, dog a smaller female (I'm gonna get flamed for that one), dog that shouldn't be worknig the street due to injury, poor training, lack of nerve, etc. Dog tired from a previous call. Given time I could think of more...One of the working K-9 guys could probably give you a better response.

Bottom line is, there is no 'magic bullet' in police work. You may pepper spray 25 guys and they cry like a baby and go down in a heap but it just pisses off the 26th guy. Bullets don't always stop an attacker either.

Very interesting, how about this. I work with police dogs and would gladly put your experiment to the test!You could help me out by helping cull the weaker dogs.Id really appreciate it!Hey I saw a guy on TV once that jumped from a plane and his parachute didnt open and he hit the ground and lived, but hid delts sucked, maybe you could try that too!

This my opinion its not absolute.

Amazing feat, it does take timing and cool nerves.
There are other tactic trained so that you can choke out a dog, theres a number of techniques that can be used. Carreer Prisoners practice and also train to take an officer's gun.

Its a fear everytime a partolman goes out on a stop as a security patrol or Police officer, K9 or human.

The patrol K9 is just another tool used to fight crime sure there are ways to defeat him, but most of the time working as a team the dog can assist in making the arrest easier. Either by taking up the assailants time (in this case) or detaining him via bark and hold or find and bite. Both are successful.

As for being a weightlifter taken a dog and throwing him its possible but the average man of your stauture or smaller could do that. Its just takes some skill and nerves, I'd put more into his training and know how then his strength. I've seen 165lb men knock 250lbs behemoths unconcisous with various methods (I'm about your size too so I'm not smitey you, I'm just saying don't be over confident), because weigh lifting does not teach you how to fight, it teaches how to condition the body. (This is my opinion).

Back to the dog, if he grabs a hold of you and shakes big muscles rip and tear just like little muscles. A dog bite can put you in shock, intense pain.

So don't bank too much on repeating what you saw on TV.

By the way I'm no where as strong as you, 40-45lb one arm curls dumbells are my limit.

Keep up the training. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

David-LMAO.

John-not just flaming you here, but a dog has adrenaline too. I haven't seen the video, but other posters on this board are MUCH more capable to describe the factors involved in K9 performance.

I'm guessing by the title of your topic that your proposed alternative is a larger dog-one that would be more difficult to toss around. I disagree. There are alot of 70-pound Mals out there that hit like saw-tooth logging trucks. And a well-muscled 80-pound dog is faster and more agile than a 100-pound dog. (Speaking of getting flamed-I'll stand by for correction on that...)

What you saw on TV was not proof of a theory, unless you count it as "the exception that proves the rule." The K9 deployments that I've seen on tape involved alot of barking, biting, and girlish screams for mercy. I don't think any of them had a scale handy, and I have never heard one to exclaim "that dog's only 25 inches at the withers..." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The point I was trying to make is that a slighly above average sized man, with some strength training whether it be in the gym, or otherwise can throw an 80lb. dog over a fence, if it's not attacking him, but I think 99% of the people out there would have a hard time throwing a rottweiler, mastiff, american bulldog, or other large dog over a fence, even if they let you.

If you can't throw a calm dog, you can't throw a large dog.

My point, if there was a GSD that weighed 130lbs, yet retained it's capibilty for high prey and fight drive, it's tenacity, speed, alertness, etc. etc.

NOTHING SHORT OF A BULLET WOULD STOP IT.

I think there is one guy I know who could easily throw a dog that size, and he benches 705lbs, but I doubt he has the speed and agility to catch it.

BTW, I had no idea I would be using "throw the dog over a fence" as a benchmark for anything!
I am having a hard time writing this without laughing.

I work for a police department and train with our K9 unit. Like others have said, that was an exception to the rule. Just like pepper spray, I can tolerate it quite a bit as compared to others who fall out at the smell of it. If the guy was trained in martial arts, depending on what method he studied, you can use the dogs momentum against them. We do it in building frustration in the dogs and muzzles. When they go to hit, or launch at us, we move out of the way. This build frustration and makes them want you more. Kinda like keep-a-way. It would be very easy to push the dog when he is in mid air if your timing is right. Another thing to keep in mind in the "cops" show is somewhat played out. Your right, how would the camera guy get there the same time as the dog and before the police. Very seldom have I been in a foot pursuit, fought the guy, then was able to stand up and hi five 6 other officers standing around. Sometimes I wonder on the reality of Cops and if some of it is not planned out...It's just too coincidental that the camera just happens to be at the right place at the right time....

Originally posted by John Stowe:

My point, if there was a GSD that weighed 130lbs, yet retained it's capibilty for high prey and fight drive, it's tenacity, speed, alertness, etc. etc.

NOTHING SHORT OF A BULLET WOULD STOP IT.

Well, nothing short of a miracle... if the dog wasn't dysplastic

There is a reason you don't see them race aircraft carriers... Bigger gets the job done, but usually not at high speed. Look at football players.....

Just like in martial arts its not the power of the punch as much as it is the speed and punching throught it.A bulldozer could push a board around indefinatelt but a quick punch through the board will break it. The same concept with the dogs. A very fast agile dog has more more at impact than a slower heavy dog.What you saw on TV was one dog, it could have been 13 years old or 13 months old,who knows?The answer is not bigger heavier dogs. Id rather have Butter Bean trying to run me down than Felix Trinidad any day!!

Maybe that was not so Amazing, after reading Jason reply that would take a little more then luck to be as fast as a GSD to arrive at about the same time unless you already knew where the assailant was. Good Dectective work Jason.
If you take anybody that trained to work with dogs this quite possible, you are use to a anger dog coming at you.

There is a fear factor in any fight, and with a dogs, because you can't reason with him its heighten. I still see your point that a strong willed person could throw a dog over a fence if his timing was right. Regardless of which breed it was (maybe not Borebole 170-200lb mean a%$ dog) if all the stars lined up that night.

But there is a reason why the 40 S&W is used and the GSD/Mal are used they've proven to be the best, for the job. This is just my opinion.
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