David C.Frost Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2002
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nashville, TN
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There has been a lot of dicussion on the use of NESTT products for explosives detection. I'm just curious has anyone presented it to an already trained dog, and did the dog, without cue, respond to the substance.I've read the literature, and have read discussions from those that have used it. One discussion was that dogs trained on actual substance would not respond to the NESTT, unless cued, however those that were trained on NESTT would respond to actual substances. Being a trainer, i'm not all that concerned about double blind studies, and arguments among the intellectuals on the pros and cons. My concern is: If presented to an already trained dog, will the dog, without benefit of a cue, give a positive response, with the same degree of proficiency as they do on actual substances.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again.
I've used the silica coated stuff (not the stuff in petrolatum). I use this in class and issue out quantities of the stuff to my handlers while they are in my course. I don't know how well it would work all by itself, there could be threshold problems observed. I move the dogs onto more traditional means long before they attempt certification.
Since the stuff is silica w/ the real explosive coated on it it is not a pseudo but it is also not the same as many common formulations of explosives either. But there is something like 20,000 explosive formations available based only on a handful of constituents and it is not possible to train on all those either so it seems that starting with the basic building blocks of all those explosives is a reasonable approach.
David C.Frost Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2002
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Mr. Sheldahl
Thank you for the comments. Have you ever tested certified dogs, that have never been introduced to the NESTT, (on the NESTT material), to see if they will or will not respond. that is where my curiosity really lies.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again.
David,
I have seen cetified MWD and Federal LE dogs work on NESTT with no problems. We had one or two(I can't remember if ir was the same dog twice or two dogs.) That showed intrest but no actual "alert." I will have to follow that statement by saying I never saw those dog(s) work on real stuff so I can't say for sure it was the NESTT that was the issue.
In my experience you just need to let the NESTT set up for about 45mins to an hour and you shouldn't have too much of an issue.
NESTT is all I'm alowed to use, I work private security, and our dogs show no problem between the NESTT and real explosives. Also our dogs are originally trained and certified on real stuff before they work on the NESTT stuff.
Hope this helps!
-Luke
Thank you for the comments. Have you ever tested certified dogs, that have never been introduced to the NESTT, (on the NESTT material), to see if they will or will not respond. that is where my curiosity really lies.
DFrost
No I have not and really would like to see a complete study.
The idea is that there are micro quantities of non recoverable energetic materials on the surface of the silica.
I suspect that one problem will be like the German military saw with SOXX also a micro quantity training aid and that was threshold issues as they were moved to more realistic quantities.
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Re: Use of NESTT
[Re: David C.Frost ]
#144658 - 06/13/2007 10:14 PM 
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