Hi guys,
just finished watching the building drive video with Bernhard Flinks. Amazing. His dog is absolutly amazing as well, with the guy stepping on his tail and him not losing focuse. Very impressive.

Anyways,
I had a couple of questions about the video I was hoping you guys can help me answer.

1. First off, when you teach the dog to sit, lay down, heel etc. while in drive, do you always need to show the dog the toy first? Lets say we are at the park, and I don't have the toy with me, when I tell him to sit, and I havn't shown him the toy will he go into drive and sit? During the schuzhund competition, how do you get the dog into drive if you can't have the toy with you??

2. I will be picking up my dog when he is 8 weeks old, so I was wandering the apporximate age timing of when to teach certain parts of the video. I understand that the dog has to be ready to go on to focus etc no matter what its age is, but I was wandering what the minimum age limit is for diff.parts like is there a minum for when to start
focus?

Thanks.

Dennis

one more question-
Sitting, heeling, down etc. need to be taught in general before they are taught in high drive? coorect? thanks.

Hi Dennis,

1. Not always- but in the beginning you do need to have the toy with you- or don't work the dog. Later on you will phase the toy out of site(as shown on the video) and sometimes I don't carry the toy at all. I will leave it somewhere on the field and send him to the toy for the correct performance- that way the dog is never thinking "I can't see the toy, so I am not going to get anything." Once the dog has started the focus training and can focus for several seconds- I start switching them to making eye contact for the reward. I start this by making drive- asking for a sit and then placing the ball out of site (behind my back) as soon as the dog looks at my face good-and reward. After a couple of days of this they usually figure out that looking at your face is what you want. Not everyone does this- and there are some sidebacks to the direct eye contact for the dog's position.

2. Really there isn't an approximate time line that anyone can give you- every dog will be different- but with this work being meticulous counts! If you rush through the first parts of the work it will show later on. With tiny puppies you can start developing the desire to play the game and taking the pup into your arms to build the feeling of trust between you. Some dogs are able to start heeling early on- my dog didn't get to that point till around 11 months or so- but good lord he does it beautiful now!

and so far as your last question. I think with small puppies it is easier to teach the indivdual positions with food. You can better lure them into position and immediately reward them with the food as well as keep them in that position and continue to reward without having to end the exercise.

Good luck with the pup!

1. When they're still young, I wouldn't really ask them to sit/down/whatever unless you have a toy or food with you to motivate the dog to do it. Otherwise, what if the dog doesn't sit? Do you correct it? No, not at a young age. With a toy/food you're a lot more likely to get the dogs attention and to get it to sit. Also, you want to be sure that the dog is solid on sits before you do them under distraction.

In competition, the dog is usually made to think you have the toy or food. You'll see people hiding the toy under their armpits and dropping it randomly for the dog, or spitting food at the dog...there are lots of different methods for this.

2. At a really young age, just start with dragging the toy around for him, like on a whip or string. The dog needs to have drive for the ball before being able to focus. It all depends on the dog...some pups go crazy for the ball, but others take a little (or a lot) longer to build that level of drive. Give it a few weeks of short sessions (3 minute) a few times a day, and see if the pup has lots of drive for the ball. I wouldn't expect a young puppy to be able to focus for more than a few seconds, either. Just take it slow, never rush anything, the dog will tell you when he's ready.

As for the last questions...a lot of people will use food to teach the dog the excercises first, because the dog is so excited for the prey object and it's hard to get him to sit when all he wants to do is get that toy. They *can* be taught in drive, but depending on the dog, it's a lot easier with food!

The toy is used in the foundation work for building the drive in your dog. Thru dirve you will teach him various exercises which would be very very basic intially. Over a period of time the prey item will change from the toy to the bite tug to the bite pillow and finally to the sleeve on the helper. So now a dog in a schutzhund competition sees the sleeve on the helper as his prey item while doing protection work. Also there will be a lot of training put into the dog by the time he reaches a schutzhund competition. At this stage he is motivated enough to go through the routine thru commands from the handler. The above process is a lot of training time for both the dog and the handler (trainer). You will see the dog change from the time you needed a toy to build drive to the time he just needs a command to put him in drive.
And answering the second question - every dog is different - if you follow the training methods which Bernhard teaches in the video - notice the whipstick with a ball attached to the thread - this is a great metho to develop drive in young puppies - swanandkny@yahoo.com and make sure to start very slow and graduate slowly you will figure out when the time is right to start focus work. Again start very slow and short periods of time initially as puppies have very very little attention span.
Lastly, obedience is best when taught thru drive (be it prey or food). That way it will build a better bond with you and your dog. Keep watching Bernhard's video. You will learn something new each time you watch it.

IMO, you might be a little ahead of yourself with the Building Drive Grip & Focus work with an 8 week old puppy. Although the tape is fantastic, you might want to check out Ed's tape on puppy bitework, which deals specifically with young dogs beginning bite work. As far as any formal obedience, Bernhard said at his seminar that he prefers to wait until the dog is old enough to withstand a proper correction. I was even surprised when he mentioned that he doesn't even teach the "Platz" command until the dog is around 17 months old. However, this does not mean that your pup should go unchecked as far as basic puppy manners are concerned. It's your job to be the pack leader and teach your dog what behaviors are appropriate and what behaviors are not. Good luck with your dog.

Just so there isn't a chance of mis-interpreting Benhard Flink's training methods, I'm going to say this:

Most people posting a question in this particular forum are asking about Bernhard Flink's training methods, one would assume.

Any poster can post his ideas about dog training. This is a dog trainers forum, after all. But when we're posting under the forums that talk about Bernhard Flink's tapes and training methods, maybe noting that you're replying with *your* training methods, as opposed to Bernhard's, would be nice.
Some folks post a very authoritarian response about Bernhard's training, when in fact their interpretation of his training style is 60% incorrect

This is a caveat about accepting other people's interpetations of Bernhards Flink's training method.
Watching a video tape, while an excellent training tool, gives you only an elementary view of a trainer's background.
Going to a Flink's seminar is really the best money you can spend in dog training today.
See ya'll at Ed's place in July for Bernhard's next seminar! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Will
I think I was the 3rd person to host a Bernhard Flinks seminar in the USA. Bernhard stayed here at my house for about 11 days and we got to do a lot of training, aside from what is done at his seminars. I really enjoyed Bernhard as a person and highly respect him as a trainer. As a matter of fact, I even sent a young female back with Bernhard to title for me. I liked EVERYTHING about Bernhard's training and still promote his techniques, but I don't like the commercialized way that they have become today. I know that whenever someone or something becomes popular, they tend to change, but I don't think dog training should be one of those things. I think the seminars are too large and too much aimed at making money instead of really teaching something. JMO

I attended my first Flinks seminar just a month or so ago, and it was worth every penny. I thought we had a decent turnout, and everyone got fair and equal time with their dogs and Bernhard. Bernhard genuinely loves the sport, and will help anyone that wants to help themselves become better trainers. JMO

My answers:

Yes show the dog the toy when teaching the command. If fact the video shows how Bernhard would like the toy raised for "sitz". Answering your last question may answer some previous ones as well.

 Quote:

..taught in general before they are taught in high drive?

NO! That is the point of Bernhards methods. They are DRIVE commands. "At first I teach my dog the white way.." I've seen the DVD's plenty of times and been to 2 seminars. Its been a year however, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, maybe I'll see some of ya this weekend.