Can this method be used for everyday basic obedience in addition to competition obedience? My dog is nuts for the ball and does all of his commands in drive when in the field. How can I apply this to day-to-day walks, etc.? For example, sits on a street corner, heel when a baby stroller goes by, etc... I can't produce the ball (even intermittently) in those situations given the traffic, people on the sidewalks, etc. I could use food rewards though. Should there be two sets of commands, one drive commands and one basic day-to-day obedience? Should you wait until the drive commands are learned very well, and you have used intermittent rewards, and the periods between rewards can be quite long, before using the drive commands in day-to-day life? Then produce the ball when you can?

Thanks,

Adam

For the purpose of proofing, I think it's a good idea to work in realistic environments like this. But if it's not for sport, practical obedience training like this should require corrections. The dog obeys because it must; not because he thinks you have a toy hidden on you, especially when you're around a bunch of crazy people, unless you just want to look flashy with your dog on the street.

It's not that I want to look flashy on the street. What I do want is a way to train practical obedience with little or no compulsion, if possible. I recognize that corrections in proofing likely will be required. My dog has learned all of his commands using food in the beginning, then ball on a string, with intermittent rewards. This has been done in locations with few distractions. I have over time added a bit more distraction. To-date, I have not used these commands in day-to-day life (e.g. on the street), because I could not give the ball reward. He has very good manners, so it has not really been a problem. I am wondering of the obedience training with drive can ever translate into day-to-day obedience, or should it be treats and then corrections if needed.

I do it all the time, when I can not reward with a ball or tug, I give him alot of praise instead, and he is happy about it too.

The way I look at it is the way you would raise your child. You don't give your kids a cookie every time they do something right, nor do you want them to expect one intermittently. They do these things because you are the boss, and because they respect you. The dog has to learn the same way, or he's never fully going to grasp the concept of obedience. So I believe you have to apply force to get the dog to fully understand that what we're doing is not playing; we are working. Afterall he's not a working dog until he's willing to work for nothing.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Sanchez:
Afterall he's not a working dog until he's willing to work for nothing.

Work for nothing? what the heck does that mean? I think Adam's original question was do you reinforce (i.e. reward and/or correct) practical obedience and competition type obedience differently.

My answer is absolutely! I have everyday commands for walking thru town, no precision required. No fuss, sit or platz necessary. AND guess what? My dogs still get something for doing it right!! Happy praise, a treat or a pat will do. It's all about respect and undertanding what being part of the pack is about in that setting. Speed and precision aren't necessary here, just 'manners. you can use any commands you wish, just make them different words than you use for your 'structured' training.

REAL obedience commands that we use on the schutzhund field are done only in drive and with precision, focus and speed rewarded. The reward here is food, toy or a bite...

I would never expect my dogs to work for nothing, I know I get paid for my work...

It's just a matter of finesse to know what is a reward for your own dog....for some it's a simple as saying GOOD JOB when they do what you ask...

I am in the process of attempting to retrain a dog that was taught with force "because he has a job to do, and he should just DO IT when commanded" BULLS**T... Dogs treated this way (if their worth their salt) will show you all the holes in that method when you can least afford to see it! (trial day, for example)

IMO, that's old school and has no place in modern dog training. Don't get me wrong, I can give a correction with the best of them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> just ask Xando!! But, the key is respect and correct teaching first...

Adam, keep on doing what you are doing. Sounds like you and your dog are doing fine.

When I was a kid, my father used to make me cut the lawn. I got nothing for it, butdid it to avoid having him get mad or be disappointed with me.

In school, I was told to get good grades. If I didn't.... watch out! I got good grades so as not to find out what "watch out" was.

When I got married, my wife told me I would be doing 50% of all the household chores. She said I should do it because I love her.

I should have been a dog.

I should have been a dog.
I would like very much to be your master, you sound like a dream dog, but do you have IT in your gene, can you stand up and challenge the thread, do you have the fight drive in you? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />