I have two GSD's. A 20 month old male and a 7 month old female. Both fixed. At times they act like newly weds and other times you'd think they need a divorce. They are both from German
working lines. I'm concerned with the way my female acts towards my male. I have always had
just one dog so I'm needing some good advice.
When we got our female, our male would play rough with her, knocking her over, grabbing her by the scruff of the neck..never actually being mean just rough. We corrected him when he did this.
It got to the point were I was concerned with this rough play and it worried me. So, I contacted a Behaviour Specialist and took a video of the dogs playing and sent it to her. She said
that I should provide an out for the puppy to go to when my male got rough with her so she could get away from him when she need to, he likes to pester her. Otherwise she said they would get along fine let them work it out amongst themselves. She is months older now and I must say she is a tough little girl. She has gotten a bit bigger and she does play quite well with him. There are times when he gets a little rough and
she will lash out at him, he will back down but she doesn't, she acts as though she is making a statement and that is all there is to it! Obviously he has to defend himself. They have never drawn blood on each other just alot of noise and she usually gets a mouth full of hair.
I have been told that I shouldn't get in the middle of this let them work it out. That has been hard to do being he is twice her size. Usually I will distract them with a toy or whistle and they quit. She is the one that gets mean. The most he has displayed is pinning her down and holding her by the throat. He doesn't bite her or act mean sometimes he acts as though it is a game. The other problem I'm having is when I let them out of their kennels or crates. Doesn't matter which one gets let out first she runs at him like she is going to kill him. They are in outside seperate kennels while we are at work. When I play fetch with them she is more interested in jumping on his back and trying to hump him than trying to get the ball. We have been waiting for him to put her in her place but he won't do it. She takes bones from him and toys and he just lets her. He acts very passive to her and lets her have her way. Is this something anyone else has experienced? Should I let them just go at it? I just want any serious injuries to occur or how far should I let them go?

Maureen
Living with three terriers who always play like death is the next round, I don't think you have a real problem. You have two high drive, working dogs, and it sounds like the female has established herself as "top dog" It doesn't sound, to me, like it is as serious as it sounds. there have been no bites that have broken skin, so they seem to have it under control. I wouldn't interrupt to much, but both dogs need individual time with you so they don't become bonded to one another more than with you. You need to be in charge. There will be fewer arguements for leadership when you establish yourself as top dog. Others on the board will give you great info.

Well, thats how it is when you have 2 high drive dogs hanging out with each other. You said that you are waiting for them to work it out,well they have. They are living in pack order. She is in charge and he accepts it. If he didnt accept it then you would have a problem. As it stands now thats how its going to be. Be glad it is as good as it is.

By your description; sounds like you have a dominate bitch who has and continues to establish herself as top dog. So..what's the problem? Why do you assume that the male should be in charge? You have two high drive dogs..be glad they're getting along and have worked it out.

I appreciate everyones imput, thank you. I didn't
mean to sound so nieve, this is the first time
with two dogs and have never had to deal with a
pecking order. Just want to make sure I do my part
so I don't cause problems between the two. Up to
this point I was unsure who was really top dog.
By the roughness my male would display to her, at
times made me think she was lashing out to tell
him to back off. This to me was the confusion.
They have given so many mixed signals. Not having
the experience with two dogs one is unsure at
times what to really watch for. I guess we all go
through a learning phase. I now know that I
will need to re-enforce her status as top dog.
Thanks again

She takes bones from him and toys and he just lets her. He acts very passive to her and lets her have her way..

That right there is a huge clue. What do you suppose would happen if the male tried to take a bone or a toy from the female? He would quickly be put in his place, I am sure.
Quite often, while in play, dogs will exchange dominant postures with one another. For example, I have a similar setup at my house, with a dominant bitch and a subordinant dog. When important things are at stake, like resting places, toys, bones, or food, the pecking order is very clear. They both know their place, and this is serious business. But in play, quite often the subordinate will mount the dominant, or the dominant will roll on her back and let the subordinant mouth her neck. Of course there are limits to what the dominant one will let the subordinate do, even in play; sometimes she will abruptly interrupt play for serious dominance posturing if she feels a line has been crossed.

What do you suppose would happen if the male
tried to take a bone or toy from the female?

.......Resting places, toys, bones or food.

She does take toys from my male. They both lay
on the floor and chew bones together, both chew
the same bone at the same time. They both lay
together on the same dog bed, at the same time.
They snuggle with each other. And for eating,
neither one of them have a problem with each
other sticking their nose in each others dish
while they are eating.

The problem I'm having is when they; are let out
of their crates and kennels. Also when we play
fetch she will jump on his back and try to hump.
And she goes nuts when he walks in front of her
or if he plays too rough.

This is why they have been so hard to read.
If she would have attacked him for sticking his
nose in her food dish or when he took a toy or
bone or got after him for laying on the same bed.
I think this would have been much clearer.

I guess maybe I should have figured it out by the
way she is mean to him when they are let out of
their kennels or when she needs to be first.

I understand that she takes toys from the male. My question was what happens when the MALE takes things from the FEMALE.

She's still pretty young. The male could be cutting her slack due to her age. But from what you have posted, and that is all I can go by, it sounds like they have already figured things out.

As for playing, just speaking for myself, I prefer to play with my dogs one on one. This eliminates that irritating competitive behavior. I don't bother myself with supporting the pecking order, either. As the Supreme Queen Alpha Empress of their little doggy universe, it is beneath my dignity to give a hoot which dog does what first. If I want to pet one of them, that's my decision. If I want to play with one, that's my decision. If I want to let one of them on the bed, that's my decision. I'm not silly enough to throw one bone on the floor and expect them to share, or to expect them to treat each other as equals. Generally speaking, a leader who is secure in their position doesn't give a rat's behind which dog goes through the door first. The only time I might pay attention to those things is when I am just introducing a new dog into the household, to help keep things copacetic until they figure it out on their own.

My male does take bones and toys from my female.
She does let him do this without a hassle factor.
That is what I meant to write sorry for the mis-
interpretation.
Also I hope I didn't make it sound as though I
give them both just one bone between the two of
them. I'm not that stupid! Honestly, one of them
will get a bone and go lay next to the other
and share their bone. I don't make them do this.
They have never faught over food either, I choose
who gets the treat first and the other one waits.
When I choose to pet one the other one waits.
And it doesn't bother me either who goes thru the
door first as long as it is me. I have play time
with them together so they can learn to behave
when they play together, so I may take them both
with when I go camping or to the park. Without
having to confine one. However,I do have seperate
play times as well. What is the most bothersome
is what happens when I release them from their
kennels. I'm trying to figure out why this is
happening. It's like he teases her all day and
when we get home she's out to get him. Do you
think a shock collar would be too abrasive in
this situation?

L Swanston thanks for all your info you have been
really helpful, I like your statement about being
Queen ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I guess I'm not totally clear on the kennel situation. Are we talking full sized outdoor kennels, or crates in the house, or in the car (it sounds like it might be in the car, when you let them out to go in the house?)? From what I gather, whenever you let them out, no matter which one gets out first, the female goes after the male in an aggressive way?....and this is not play or greeting, but serious stuff? What is the male doing; what does he do right before and during these episodes? Could he be doing something to trigger the response? Is there something that you are doing that might contribute?
What I'm picturing is not something I have had any personal experience with, but if it were happening on a regular basis with my dogs, I would a) Exercise more control by temporarily eliminating this situation and not allowing it to happen; let them out one at a time, 10-20 minutes apart, keeping the male in another location when the female is let out, and vice versa. Remember that every time a behavior is allowed to occur, it is reinforced. Breaking the cycle can be immensely helpful in getting a behavior under control. b) leash the female before letting her out, and pull her away from the male if she tries to go after him, giving her a "leave it" command. The moment she takes her attention away from the male and gives it to you, reward her. The leash gives you more physical and psychological control over her, while keeping your hands off. c) Continue to work the female in basic obedience, then work on obedience under distraction, including the "leave it". She needs to know that what you say goes, no matter what other interesting things are present.
Remember her age; she's still young. You'll have to work with her on this consistently. Don't let her get away with it one time, then not the next. You have to make it impossible for her to do this, every time.

You might also consider videotaping this particular behavior and getting some help with it that way. The internet isn't always the best medium for communicating some things.

I'm not an expert here, just offering what help I can. There might be someone else, more knowledgeable, with a better suggestion.