What is peoples opinon on protection sports assosiation? How is it compared to french ring or any other types of protection sports?

Dave

I've never seen a PSA event, but from what I've read the PSA is more a kin to the KNPV than, say French or Belgian Ring.
There are others on this board that could probably give you a better answer.

I am looking for more than just a sport. I have read the rule book and the type of scenarios that the dogs are put through. I find that the sport training here in canada are to pray driven for my training style. I am looking for more real life and a test that requiers a dog to use more than just its pray drive. I just think that I am looking for something diferent than what is here in my area.

Dave

Ive been to both. I belong to a P>S>A> club.
Any SchH titled dog that will bite a hidden sleeve can get a PSA1 title.
Very few SchH dogs could pass a FR1 test with out a lot more training. Both FR and PSA use bite suites as apposed to a sleeve.
Ron

Ron,
that may hold true for PSA, but it doesn't for ASR. At the last ASR trial that I attended, a strong competitor with an excellent SchH II male GSD ( a very strong dog , in my opinion ) got creamed on points for treating a bark and hold as a sport. It was only that the dog was so strong for the rest of the trial that it passed. 90% of SchH dogs that I've sen would not be able to achieve an ASR title.

Yes, most SchH dogs couldn't pass a FR1 test, but the flip side of that holds true. Most FR dogs would be severely penalized by the poor quality of their bites in a SchH title.
Different sports, different training for it - no surprise that training for one sport doesn't prepare you for another - that's just common sense.

Will,

I do not know very much about ASR, but having looked at the website and the rules/regulations, I can say this:

I don't agree with your statement that most SchH trained dogs could not pass a ASR evaluation. As a Schutzhund and Police K-9 trainer/handler/decoy, I agree that ASR is much more real world than SchH. There's no comparison.

But I've seen MANY SchH titled dogs pass NAPWDA or USPCA certifications that I wouldn't want to work on the street. From what I've seen, any dog that can pass a NAPWDA or USPCA cert. would EASILY pass a ASR test.

That's not to say that ASR isn't credible. I think it's a great idea. But the ASR tests are no more difficult than the NAPWDA or USPCA certifications, and I've seen plenty of sport titled dogs pass those that I wouldn't be comfortable working on the street.

Just my 2 cents.

Scott, have you seen an ASR test in real life?

Will, with a little training in the B&H do you think the SchH II dog would have made a better showing?

Robert,

Admittedly, I have not. However, my first impression of ASR trials after reading the trial requirements for each Level, is that it is very similar to NAPWDA and USPCA Patrol/Utility Dog certifications with a few small differences (water, to name one.)

In fact, as I was reading the rules of ASR, I found myself thinking, "We do those same things at in-service training every week," or "It looks like a NAPWDA or USPCA test for civilians."

If it is different in person, I'll stand corrected. But on paper, a dog that can pass ASR tests, should be able to pass NAPWDA/USPCA quite easily and vice versa. Yes, there will be SchH dogs that can't do it. Those same dogs would most likely not pass NAPWDA/USPCA either. And there will be SchH dogs that CAN pass it.

My point is, that I've seen plenty of weak (or at least dogs I consider more SPORT than REAL and that I would not want to work) SchH dogs pass NAPWDA/USPCA certifications which, on paper, are almost identical to ASR's protection, building search and area search phases (without water. But add tactical obedience, agility, article search and tracking.)

Don't misunderstand: I like SchH and it serves a purpose, if done right. But I think a real world evaluation, such as NAPWDA/USPCA or ASR would be a MUCH better way to judge a dogs nerves, temperment and working ability than any dog sport. That's why I wish we had a PSP or SP-PS type of evaluation for working dogs in the US, as NAPWDA/USPCA doesn't count as a title for breeding purposes (I know Kevin does PSP, but I mean as a Nationally recognised certification for police work dogs that agencies and courts will accept.)

Like I said, however: If ASR is that much more bad-azz in person than on paper, then I stand corrected.

Regards.