There seems to be a great deal of security from having this breed watered down as much, mainly because the public's opinion with their appearance hasn't been as good as most of the other breeds generally (Dobes, GSDs, Rotts). Meaning that most people don't love the look of them so much that they just want to have one that's docile. Of course many people in the public aren't aware of them, but I don't think most would get them if they knew of them. (Just an opinion) Beauty is how you look at it, BUT generally they aren't popular.

One guy I've talked to before whose very experienced with the Beglians said what he likes about them is you don't have to deal with this show factor as much. He felt that most working dogs would eventually all go the Malinois or Dutch Shepherds. This could be true eventually, JMO.

Hopefully they won't, because many GSD people have seen what's happened with the Dobermanns and it gives people the idea of what can happen quickly.

I do like this breed in the respect that it's function over look. I only care for breeds with ability. I don't like the look of this breed, although it's not a factor to me.

Do members on the board feel they'll eventually have to deal with show people, flyball, agility with the Malinois or do they think it's less likely? I'm sure if people wanted to make these dogs look good they could.

Originally posted by Brad Gargis:

Do members on the board feel they'll eventually have to deal with show people, flyball, agility with the Malinois or do they think it's less likely? Brad you are without a doubt a hoot.

LOL x 5,000,000 Never will the Malinois have to deal with the rank and file show folks or any of the other respected games in the context of AKC of CKC.

The real Mals out there in the system are not registered or for those nervous about playing with un papered dogs with false papers.

Thank God for that as this keeps the Mal honest.

JMO
Jerry

The show lines among the Mals are there.
Yet, the light graceful lines and tiny triangle eared enthusiasts won't breed to the big coarse working variety. Which is good.
Since there are far more varieties of Belgians...the unregistered Dutch dogs bred for KNPV, the NVBK dogs of which some have FCI recognized pedigrees but many many don't, the dogs competing in St. Hubert Ring, and IPO for the registered dog,, and of course the pedigree dog of questionable lineage (the mainstay of the working Mal), there will be a strong surge in use of these dogs and already is in police circles and the biting dog sports.
As usual, the dog will show up int he news and average folks will have to have one as a pet. This will start the progress of them being more involved in flyball, agility, etc. Just like the BC's. This will hurt the Mals in the U.S.
But, just like is the GSD world, there will be those that breed and train for strong work. Although the vast majority of people breed GSD's purely as beauty or pets (although if you ask them you will get another line of BS about their awesome working ability also) a few will hold the line breeding for work.
Currently, there is also some evidence that the GSD cannot produce the % of working dogs per litter that the Mal can (the breeding program in NRW Germany's police dog program breeding the very best for work and health could only produce 60% of their dogs to work in the GSD breed and got to 90% in the unregistered malinois of basically dutch lineage)if this holds true then if large government breeding programs begin to be established (US Military?, Universities, etc) then we will certainly see the malinois continue to surge in numbers in the ranks of law enforcement.

Kevin, here in Canada a number of large and respected Police K9 Units have stopped using Malinois. My opinion is that the units involved just do not have the experience to deal with a real high end Malinois.

My question is.... Has there been a similar type of swing in the States that you are aware of.

Thanks Jerry

Kevin,

The statistics you quote for the NRW German police dog breeding program... are you saying that 60% of all GSD pups and 90% of all Mal pups produced in this program could be raised, trained, and certified to do patrol-type work? Or are you saying some could do patrol work, while others couldn't do patrol work but could do detection or SAR work, and all of these add up to 60% and 90% for the two breeds? I wasn't aware that any breeding program could produce a majority of pups in a litter good enough for patrol work.

Also, a 90% passing rate for Mals suggests a very low incidence of health problems... I'd have thought that health problems alone would add up to more than a 10% failure rate of the pups produced.
Or are you talking about 60%/90% certification rates for those dogs who reach a certain stage in the breeding program... like as a hypothetical example, 60% of GSDs and 90% of Mals who reach adolescence in this program and pass their health checks will go on to later become PSDs?

Thanks.

Laura

Not theoretical at all, I'm afraid. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Ed covers the issue in this article: http://www.leerburg.com/99bundes.htm

My question is.... Has there been a similar type of swing in the States that you are aware of.


Not at all, in fact many won't consider the GSD due to health and drive problems among the dogs within their price range.

There are great GSD's out there ( I have one that i work the street with and I dare a Mal centered handler to show me a more well rounded tough as h#$@, animal, particularly one without rank problems). Yet, I MOSTLY sell Mals due to the ability to buy on demand good ones. There isn't the competition for them that exists for the great GSD's and this is a consumers market.

The statistics you quote for the NRW German police dog breeding program... are you saying that 60% of all GSD pups and 90% of all Mal pups produced in this program could be raised, trained, and certified to do patrol-type work?

This is what I was told by the director of the program. On the grapevine I hear that some percentage fall by the wayside after one year on the raod for various reasons.

The program breeds very good dogs and in conscious of health, but I suspect that just because a dog has a disqualifiying trait of even health issue doesn't mean it cannot be trained for and applied in police work, at least for a period of time. Example....mild dysplasia, many many police dogs work a full and excellent career with this trait. They should never be bred but until they hurt...work 'em! Nothing is better than an active life for these dogs.
Now 'm just assuming that these dogs are part of the % that I quoted, buit really I'm not sure. I plan on visiting their facility this fall and I'll ask.
I'll also ask about their experiments in breeding mals to GSD (interesting that Helmut Raiser also suggests doing this to improve the GSD!).

Though I am certainly not an expert on the subject, I have heard that the breed's decline in police work (in Canada) is due to inferior scenting ability. Obviously these trainers would be more versed in training GSDs. I am curious as to whether it is actually inferior olfactory ability or rather sheer ignorance of how to properly train a Malinois.

Got a question...... what about a "mechele"? I'm sure I have the spelling wrong. As I understand it, is it a dog with prodominately malinios lineage with GSD thrown into the mix for stability and size. How did it come about and what are the merits of such an animal? Does this account for the larger Mals I see with the sable coloring? What is the difference between a Mal, Dutch Shepherd, Belgian Sheepdog and Turevan(sp)? My breed is being decimated by health and reliable breeding results. Might consider a change vs. fighting an old fight with no difinative conclusion in sight.