anyone have any experience with herding with a giant schnauzer. i am planning on doing french ring with my giant, but since we got him at 8 weeks, he crouches down like a border collie and then runs to "herd" our two miniature schnauzers back up to the house. it is like he is all business when he does this. any suggestions as to what age to have him evaluated? any other suggestions? i don't think this would affect the french ring training that we will be doing in the future.
thanks,
brandon

From what I've heard and read, Giant's were never a herding breed. They were (and are)however used to guard sheep and larger livestock from predators. As were the Bouvier, Anatolian, Rottie, Caucasian and many other 'natural' guarding breeds. To this day, many canine experts say the large livestock guardians (NOT herders) are the only natural guarding breeds, capeable of fighting off a predator (man or beast) without any training.

They are much more suspicious and naturally 'on the look out' than the herding breeds and have a much smaller tendancy to 'control' the flock...
They mostly just lie down on a higher level and watch over it, half asleep (the key word here is "half"!)

They DO definetely watch to make sure no member of the flock gets lost and will keep the flock roughly together. You can see this in our homes today. While a Belgian Shepherd will constantly circle our house and yard, a Giant will pick a central position (usually smack dab in the middle of the yard facing the gate's entrance) and "half" sleep...

Giants being the 'fun-loving' smartasses they are, have performed very sucessfully in dog-sledding (yes on snow), agility, SAR (a supreme talent) and yes even herding trials. But they were not bred for herding and will never in my mind be comparable to even the average herding Border Collie. So, I would go so far as to say its wrong to train a Giant in herding because it confuses on-lookers into thinking its a different type of dog. Something like a bearded German Shepherd. Nothing could be further from the truth. Lets PLEASE keep our breeds seperate here!

Brandon,do an online search on "All Breed Herding" and you will come up with alot of info. that maybe of help to you.Contact an All Breed,and I stress,All breed herding instructor that can answer your questions and perhaps do an herding instinct test on your dog.I hate when people imply you can't herd with your dog if you don't have a Border Collie because they will never be as good.Yah Border Collies dominate herding like G.S.D's to Schutzhund both for good reason.That's not to say that another breed cannot do very well at,if they have what it takes.I don't compare how my Rottweiler herds with how my Australian Kelpie works.They have two completley different styles,there is no comparison.I think herding with a breed that you don't see everyday,assuming it has herding instinct,is far from ruining the breed.If it confuses on lookers they they need to educated.Good Luck!As to herding being a hinderance to French Ring,I don't know,get a few different views on it before starting herding.

The Giant most certainly DOES come from rough coated herding stock. Similar to the origins of the Bouvier. . .they were cattle drovers.

Rottweilers were cattle drovers as well.

They were not from livestock guarding backround like the Anatolian. I don't know how that could be mistaken.

Brandon if your dog has the drives and instincts to herd, do it. I kinda wonder if his behavior with the other dogs is really "herding" behavior though.

Schnauzer history link

Here is another link, says it right in the standard under Origin.

schnauzer

I am going to have to learn how to get my point across with fewer works like Robert does.When he does the crouching thing that may not be a herding thing it maybe just be prey drive as if you were to herd with him he wouldn't crouch and slink like a B.C or a Kelpie as these breeds use alot of eye.He would work upright like my Rottie.

That's not to say you shouldn't give it a try!!

UKC breed standard

History: The Giant Schnauzer is a separate breed from the Minia-ture and Standard. Their country of origin is Germany. Breeds were developed for specific work in the 1600's; this breed was developed to be used as drovers of sheep and cattle and as a guard dog. Its coat was also influenced by weather and living conditions. Some of the breeds which were used in the development were the Standard Schnauzer, Great Dane, rough-haired sheep dogs and possibly the Bouvier des Flandres. The breed was not that well known until World War I when it was used for police training.

The Giant Schnauzer was recognized by the United Ken-nel Club in 1948.

everything i have read on giants except for the first post after mine has mentioned that breed was developed for herding, that's why i was asking for advice on what age to have a dog tested and if that sort of training might have an affect on prey drives with the french ring training and so on. i have heard of carting with giants, but never sledding with them. as for a thread in the discussion group a little while back on why breeds other than gsd's and mals are not involved in these sports (as much), check the post above, those opinions are why it is hard to do some things with the other breeds. i run into that sort of thing very often. sometimes gsd's and belgian shepherds don't fit into someone's family like another working breed does, and then picking the right dog for you ends up keeping you from participating in quite a few of the sports that you would like to try. sorry for rannting...i am going to try it when he is old enough and see what happens.
thanks,
brandon