Hi, I want to ask this question here because I know some of you GSD people in here have the knowledge to answear:

As with the GSD there's also a big difference with the Dobermann between good working lines and show lines. But why isn't the Dobermann more common than it is in different sports like Schutshund? Has it something to do with the balance of defensive and prey drive etc? Or what? I believe the Dobermann can be a great tracker, but what's the reason why they are not that common in the ring?

André B

Andre--

I don't know a whole lot about the Doberman breed but I can tell you what one experienced helper who had always raised Dobes told me.

He said that they often have problems with the courage test (long attack at the end of the Schutzhund protection routine) not because of weak nerves, but because the breed was bred to work close to the handler and being sent away from the handler on attack does not come naturally to the breed. It sounded logical to me.

Also I've heard that good working Dobermans are getting very hard to find for many of the same reasons good Rotts are getting hard to find (increased emphasis on show during the past ten years or so). I hope some experienced Doberman people can take it from here--I'm only parroting secondhand information.

Pete Felknor

Andre
I'm not an expert like some of the people here, but I think it's because they've been so watered down so much since the late 70s and 80s. Because of this I think that's why the people w/ GSD working lines are trying like hell to protect them. They don't want to see this happen to them as well.

I think they'd be very popular to this day if they could be found worthy on a consistent basis. I think also because of the major health problems they have many times gets people off from them as well. I wish I could have one, but I doubt I ever will. I think they look like what the ultimate protection canine should look like. Everything about them to me in appearance is perfect.

If I was wanting one I would look at Blitzkreiger, Von Forrel, Cara Dobermans, & Aldercrest for example, I think there's a few left. These lines have been titled in Schutzhund and the people working these dogs I think are trying to really bring a come back to protection dogs. This is just my opinion. I really hope they make it. I think if one is found worthy, then it can do what the other breeds can. I think statistically though it's much more rare than before and when people put that kind of money and time into a dog, it makes them nervous if they think the chances are small for it to work out. That's how I feel about it.

I hope you find what your looking for and I wish you lots of luck.

The best dobes are as good as the best GSD's. The GSD is better for sport competition as they are more consistant and work for their handler. Dobes are more civil, have rank issues with other dogs more than GSD's. The good dobes don't have problems with courage tests. You must have seen bad examples or even American show lines. Dobes mature earlier than GSD's.
GSD's are able to focus more than dobes. Dobes are distracted by outside influences, esp. during obedience and tracking. They are good in protection and enjoy it.
As far as where to get a good one I would not recommend Cara dobermanns. If you cross American show lines with German showlines, then do a little Schutzhund somehow this allows you to advertise them as working dogs. I normally do not mention people or their kennels but putting people the way of Cara when they want a working dobe is not the best idea.
In the states try Blitzkrieger as Deanna is one of the few people the world who is putting good 100% working pedigrees together.
Kennel names to look for in pedigrees are, Weyermuhle, Moorieche, Klosterkamp, Bayern, Klingenstadt, Ellendonk, Kirschbule, Dormstadt, Doberwache and some others.
There are so few good dobes around now that anyone who ownes one wont sell them to service.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/kampk9/index.htm

If that's true about Cara, then totally scratch that completely.

He's right about Dobermanns from what I've heard, they seem to have a better ability to be with one handler. There more one man dogs than some of the others. I think though for home protection though that's good.

I'm not qualified enough to say all this for the record. I was just giving my thoughts on it. This guy sounds like who you should talk to about Dobermanns.

The best Dobies are as good as the best GSDs.

I have issues with that. Best at what?

Dobies are more civil than GSDs? I have issues with that as well.

Is this the GSD VS Dobie thread, cause I'm ready to rock!

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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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VanCamp you seem to have a lot of issues. Share your feelings with the group. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The question is why do we not see more Dobermans in protection sports. Many Doberman's have had the working ability bred out of them. Things recently have been starting to change with knowledgable breeders trying to correct this.

 Quote:

Originally posted by VanCamp:
"The best Dobies are as good as the best GSDs."

I have issues with that. Best at what?

Dobies are more civil than GSDs? I have issues with that as well.

I've got a prob with this too, as the "working line" Dobes I've seen are very soft dogs in comparison to our GSDs. I have not been impressed with very many Dobes.