I've often seen articles, books, and twin research on Genetics. I've also heard different views on how many generations genes carry through. I've heard it's six generations. I've noticed that in the dog world that it does not go back this far on many kennel websites. It may just be something unnecessary, I don't know.

Since six generations has been mentioned for humans, are dogs different? I know we are both mammals, but does it apply? How many generations should apply for dogs for them to be genetically superior in the board's opinion. Is there an answer to this? I'm just curious.

I don't know how far you can go back and see any influence but just stop and do the math...

you get 1/2 of your genes from each parent...

and 1/4th from each grandparent...

and 1/8th from each g-grandparent...

and only 1/16th from each g-g-grandparent.

So, even back only 4 generations, each individual ancestor has a SMALL impact. Of course, a prepotent dog "hangs on" longer in the pedigree and linebreeding "concentrates" the influence of a dog.

Just some thoughts... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Well BETH, the question is a genetic question, not a line breeding question.

Since you seem to have your math down, then I assume you know that if there's one bad flaw in the 5th or 6th generation, then eventually it'll show.

It'll be a 1/16 of chance, or 1/32 of chance, but it will occur sooner or later.
How's that for Math <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

What you say may apply to SHOW dogs, I don't know????, Thank you for your input though.

Wolf,

Not necessarily. Only 1/16 of the genetic material from one individual. Since most problems are caused by recessives, both of the affected genes must be present. So in the next generation you will have one bad gene in each individual that doesn't show the trait. If you breed to another individual that doesent carry the gene 2/4 will not have it at all.
If A is the good gene and a is the "bad" gene.
A a
A AA Aa
A AA Aa
The next generation, in total, bred to an A homozygote (AA) only 1 in 4 will have the Aa gene pair.

AA Aa
AA AA AA AA Aa

So selection and watching the progeny (F1),and the progeny of the progeny (F2) you can reverse select against the undesireable gene. As each generation passes it will become less. The monkey wrench becomes if you mix in an Aa later in the line.

The math is worse if you are dealing with multiple genes involved with creation of the trait.

Brad, if you want to do the math then check this list of links and get back to me with the genetic math results.

http://helix.biology.mcmaster.ca/brent/brent.html

Jerry

A. It was just a question, that was food for thought if you will.

B. The only reason I said what I said the second time was because that's usually my reaction to a smart a__ answer.

C. I don't care what anyone says about their medical chart, they can show me whatever looks the way the PC Joe Public community would like it to. It proves nothing. I go by things that are old school with this material,(Meaning that it's not just PC, It's FACT.)

These methods weren't used just by the German medical community, but a great deal of this type of research was done my the American Medical Association. If you look at the any form of Eugenic reseach, you'll clearly see that. This issue really isn't related to dogs. It relates to anything in science/nature.

If the answer to my question is NO IT'S NOT NECESSARY, then that's fine. BUT, I know how the science of Eugenics works.

I also agree with Richard, he's right. The reason I said what I said was because the first answer I got was not that simple. I felt like that lady thought it wasn't much of factor. I think it is. If your dealing with superior quality. In anything.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by WolfLarsen:
B. The only reason I said what I said the second time was because that's usually my reaction to a smart a__ answer.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry you thought I was not taking your question seriously. It WAS a serious answer, even if it was not the one you were looking for. You asked how far the genetic influence travels. There are NO genes present in a dog (or person) that were not present in at least one member of each generation, but as well only 1/2 of each dog's genes get passed on.

So... the trait you are looking at could traced back to a dog in 1900 and further back if you have records. Conversly, 1/2 the traits the parents have are NOT present in the offspring ON A PER-GENE BASIS. Genetics is more than math. So your question has no simple answer.

Of course, if you've found the answer, we're all waiting to hear! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Is the question 'How many generations do genes carry through?'

The answer is it depends. Genes aren't like colours being steadily more diluted: they're like marbles that get recombined. They're never lost from a family; all that happens is that genes from the particular individual of interest get spread out thinner and it is quite possible for descendants to not have genes for a particular trait that that individual had (but they'll have others).

In practice too, with the exception of mutations, genes are not unique to an individual (only their particular combination is): this means that you'll most likely find the same genes again and again even with relatively unrelated individuals. This too means that a particular genetic trait of interest is likely to persist over many generations. To take an extreme example, consider a black and tan coat in Rottweilers. Does it make sense to ask whether the coat colour gene came from the sire or the great-grand mother on the dam's side? It could be either, it could be neither: since all dogs within that breed have the same genes for coat colour, which individual contributed them is unimportant.

And not all genes are recombined. Mitochondrial DNA is inherited 100% from one's mother. Using it, it is possible to trace ancestors back thousands of years, provided the samples exist, natch.

Is that something akin to what you were looking for?

Well it's clear with today's technology that things can be manipulated more so than before. BUT I think this method is easier and much more practical in my opinion, (the six-generation part). I'll probably always think that's important to do. That's my opinion.

There's been far too much invented in Germany not for it to be taken seriously, mechanically/medically). I don't think that everything this Germany does is right and everyone else is wrong, NOT AT ALL.

BUT when you look at their references, you can't help but look into some of the things they say. This way you don't have to worry with many complicated issues. That's hard for the common man to produce and work with.

It's my opinion though that with genetics after six generations solid anything else after will die out completely. Of course now there are ways to skip this process, cloning, artificial insemination, line breeding, etc.