I would just like some people's opinion on Fero. I know how Ed and Bernard feel about the dog. Ed states on his site that Fero produces "Hectic drive". Can Someone please explain what hectic drive refers to. Does ist mean that the dog does not focus while in drive? I am not really sure how to recognize hectic drive. Also, Ed is not the only one who feels this way. I know of a few breeders who do not use Fero in their bloodline for things like bone structure and thin faces ect... I have been on the Teikerhook webpage and have actually emailed Koos Hassing about the controversy surrounding this dog and he explained to me that he has used Fero a great number of times and he produces extreme drives coupled with strong nerves and fight drives. He also says on his site that he beleives Fero to be one of the greatest producers along side Greif. I know alot of people use Fero but also a lot of people who stear clear of him. I dont know all of the facts and I do not know why anybody would want to breed to a dog if there was that much controversy. Maybe people just are not as experienced as people like Ed to recognized problems(if there is any) with dogs like Fero. I would just like to hear other peoples opinions on this.

I have seen and worked a number of Fero offspring; sons, daughters, grandsons & -daughters. I've been impressed with all of them. Most of them were Tiekerhook dogs, one of the grandsons I saw work was Yoschy vd Dollenweisse.

My friend's dog, Mitzy v Tiekerhook is a Fero and Aik vh Cindy grand-daughter. She's patrol/Narc dog and as real as they come when it comes to agression; like most Tiekerhook dogs.

John

Fero has been bred a LOT. Through yoschy i have seen some really nice dogs (I think he had around a dozen progeny in the 99 Bundesseigerprufung). Yoschy son won the IDM that year (Uli Gerlings Police dog).
But, one observation I have very consistnetly seen is a problem with environmnetal insecurities arrizing in a lot of the dogs with Fero close in the lineage. These are not readiloy seen on the sports field. The dogs have problems in strange places, slick floors, in the dark, etc. Sorry for all the die hard Fero fans out there but Fero is in a bunch of pedigrees now adays and I am seeing him in a lot of the GSD's that have this problem. I also see a low threshold to self-defense in many of them. Makes 'em a bit sharp and there fore a bit flashy on the sport field.
The current trend in working dogs is a flashy dog in obedience and intense barking in the blind. This can be had by good training in a powerful dog with great nerves or by normal training in a dog with thinner nerves. These traits become very apparent when training dogs for police service.

Being the owner of an 8mo. Fero grandson (long story), I think the term "hectic drive" is sort of like "Saturday Night Special"...almost impossible to describe on paper, but you KNOW it when you see it!

In serious, high, drive, these dogs are wound very tight, and yes, they have difficulty focusing sometimes. They are flashy, and have more than enough "courage" to fight a decoy on the field. At 3AM, on a long rundown, away from their handler, with a bad guy doing his best to give the dog as much hurt as the dog is giving him, I'm not sure I have seen more than a couple of "Fero" dogs that I would want.

The fact is that Schutzhund, for better or worse, has become a "sport"...one with enough money involved for the dogs to have started to become specialized. A great many sport people see no problem whatsoever in having a competition dog that has no real protective instinct or "fight drive" to him at all. This is almost inevitable in the progression of any sport as it becomes popular. Thus we have "combat" pistols that are too big and clumsy to actually carry; "race" cars that cannot be driven on the street; and "amatuer" athletes training full time, using performance enhancing drugs, and "blood doping" ... all in the name of "sport".

I have seen some Troll sons that I liked, I have seen a few other dogs that I liked. Not all Fero dog's suck, just a lot of 'em. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

For what contact I have had with Fero dogs - most have had alot of prey drive, but when Fero was close-up in the pedigree, I have found that the dogs were hectic. By this I mean that they did not have a naturally calm grip on anything. They would kill just about anything, a ball, a tug, or the sleeve. There was also alot of chattering on the arm. I also found that when they were pressured by the handler, they would panic a bit; this most likley an inheritated trait, from nerves.

I know a guy that knew Yoshy when he was younger, and in fact did a bit of training with him, and he told me that he is a very nice dog, with alot of drive, but does not take a lot of pressure in training. He is a dog that had to be trained without alot of complusion because of the nerve issue.

Bottom line Fero up-close, is not such a great thing in most cases, but now that time has passed I have seen some really good dogs that have Fero further back. They all seam to keep that strong prey drive that Fero is known for, and loose the weak nerves if brd in the right combination.

Every dog has bad traits that it throws off; it is possiable that we see alot more of Fero's crap because he was bred more then most other dogs, so therefore there are alot more of his progeny and after of him.

I know of a Fero/ Lord dog that is one of the best dogs I have ever seen. Alot of people would not like this combination. The fact is the Mink line, (which is well liked) also produced nervy freaks that alot of people would not own.

I have heard this about the mink line also. I have seen a couple of breeders who stay mink and Fero free. Mink has supposedly produced some very nice offspring in the past. I guess that is what the sport of schutzhund has done to the breed. People just like to see flashy dogs with shitty nerves. I guess that explains why the czech dogs are becoming more popular in this country, and I agree, the czech dogs that I have seen are very nice dogs, but if we are not carefull people are going to ruin that line also.(At least in this country).

What about Nick Heiligenbosch. He supposedly prduces good drive and good fight. He is a Fero G-grandson and an Arek Stoffelblick grand son. Dont know much about him except he is at teikerhook kennels.

I saw a Nick son and daughter at the USA NE Region helper seminar in the spring. Both were nice dogs. They are still young, and I really didn't get to see them work alot. The female did about 30 courage tests in a row for the participating helpers. These again were dogs from Koos.

Originally posted by Howie:
I have heard this about the mink line also. I have seen a couple of breeders who stay mink and Fero free. Mink has supposedly produced some very nice offspring in the past. I guess that is what the sport of schutzhund has done to the breed. People just like to see flashy dogs with shitty nerves. I guess that explains why the czech dogs are becoming more popular in this country, and I agree, the czech dogs that I have seen are very nice dogs, but if we are not carefull people are going to ruin that line also.(At least in this country). People like to see flashy dogs; one of the easiest ways to get obtain this picture is with a dog that has narrow nerves. I do not think though that the Czeck dogs is the answer to our problems. They most certainly have produced some great dogs, and have maintained a real level of working ability, but I have seen some crap from there also. While Mink has some freaks out there, and his progeny has produced some wierdo's, he most certainly has had a good impact on the breed.
But he never got the breedings to my knowledge that Fero got. So in fairness it is hard to judge.
I know a good trainer in Germany who does breed to the Mink line, but is not very fond of it in most cases. To each his own.