I always wanted a dog like my friends dad had. It was a GSD, not trained and he has never seen a helper. He was very protective to house and owner. I remember when I raised my hand against my friend the dog nearly bit me. A loud word did the same thing. Where are those dogs. I have now my 3rd GSD from 'working lines' and none is like this one was. Are there any blood lines which do better than other in natural protection? I love the GSD but because of this reason I'm thinking about to get another breed. Mal?

They are still around. Fact is that what looks 'protective' is usually just weak nerves. My housemate has a perfect example of this. If I or someone else threatens her, he will (seemlingly) jump between us (or on her if she is on a couch) but if he can not get to her (safety) he will run for the hills.

He barks up a storm... but it is not for the right reason. To someone who doesn't know the difference, this dog looks protective. To someone else who either wants to push him, or had serious intents to hurt her, he is a mush. The only way he would bite would be from behind as a cheapshot.

So, I guess what my point is... is that even though an untrained dog may have seemed protective to you... chances are that when the chips were down, you would be on your own. To believe otherwise is foolish.

(I must mention the above dog is SchH trained as well, not a totally untrained dog)

Yes, David, they are still around. I had a dog like that, a natural protector, from DDR lines. And unlike the dog that Deanna described, mine would bite for real. Great dog. Also a pain in the a$$ and a liability. Took years of training (with a helper, and a PPD trainer) to bring him to a manageable level. Not something I would want to go through again.

Let me ask you: how old were you when that incident with your friend happened? Did you mean to harm your friend, or were you just horsing around? Would you be singing a different tune had you been bit? What tune would your parents be singing? And what do you think would’ve happened to that dog?

Nope, I would not want to have a dog who bit every time he heard a loud word. I have a teenage son and often have hordes of his friends hanging out at our house. Even though they know better than to fight in front of my dogs, they DO shout. A LOT. It’s their nature. So if you are looking for “a naturally protective” dog who will be all that you want him to be without training, think again.

To answer you question Renee. I was 13 years old and my friend wanted to show me that his dog would help him in a fight and he asked me to show agression agains him. I was impressed that he had a dog what defends him. I see your concern but I think I would have rather a dog I have to control (I'm sure I can do it) than a dog I can't rely on.

David
Whats wrong with the three working GSD that you have or had? Do you work them? In OB and Protection. The trully defensive dogs that Renee spoke of can be a hassle, because they will bite at the slightest threat. But with OB and training that can be controllable and like you mention you are up for the task, (I assume you are gonna keep a leash on him). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

But I'm wondering why not train the working breds that you have, a controllable and reliable dog is really what you want. Not one that you have to watch all the time. And I don't think a Mal would change much here.

The dog that Deanna spoke of sounds pitiful doesn't it? And its SchH I traine, I presume. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Don
My first GSD had Sch3 (HOT). He did a very good job on the field but at home he licked everybody who came into the house. He never saw a reason to bark when the doorbell rung. I encouraged him always but it didn't help. The same now with the dog I have now. My neighbor's Yorky is more protective than all 3 GSD together I had. Maybe it's me. I really don't know. I may pick out always the wrong one. That's why I like to know if there is a bloodline where the chance to get a 'good' one is better. I don't care about a good score and knowing that in a real situation I would be on my own.

You can simply train the dog you have now to react appropriately when you want him to. Just as you train protection work at the sch field, you train protection work at your house, using a decoy who can elicit some suspicion from the dog. If he's got strong nerves and all his experiences with visitors to your house have been friendly, then he's never been stimulated to feel protective or defensive of his home.

Hello Daivd,

While what everyone has said is correct, I don't think they may have answered your question. I know very little about specific bloodlines, but there are people on this board who do. What you want is a defensive and sharp dog. I know some Czech lines that are. Ask Will Rambeau and Van Camp. Also there are good german lines too. See Ed's for sale page of an Itor son. Its probably better for you to look at dogs bred as police hopefuls (be careful of course). Sometimes what works for a police and personal protection dog is not necessarily the best for Schutzhund sport.

Lee made a good point, sometimes training on the field doesn't translate to protection off the field unless you train for it.

But I see your point, you want a dog that can preceive a threat on its own. I think you should look at protection training, the SchH dogs you have.

My GSD and a RottieX are trained in such scenario that if am playful or really attacked in a way that they deem improper especially from behind or when we are out Camping, hiking/walking or at my house say running the edger (too nosy for me to hear), with my back turned and someone approaching. They will break a down to get at the person or persons coming at my back.

Now people can be walking all around us, say at Pet Mart or at the Park. Only if they act like they are sneaking up or particular is it on. This has happened several times, and its saved my bacon or stopped this b.s. behavior, only once or twice have I had to apologize because the man was just picking up a ball behind a car (it looked like some the games we play). I see what Renee means is hind sight, but like you I'd rather do that then not have my back watched.

So train the scenario and test it every so often, I know its not natural like your friends dog, but sometimes you got to work with what you got.

By the way my GSD from what this board bought out is just a plain old GSD, from show and maybe some working back ground. The Rottie bitch is mix with Pit bull, so you have better bred dogs.

By the way how long ago was this, you were 13?

You may be in better shape in the end, your finish product maybe less of liabilty. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jeff Post was probably what you wanted to hear.
But its gonna cost you why not just train your dog to be more suspicious off the field.

But Jeff's reply would be a easy fix.