It has been mentioned on another list recently that Feivel is dead. The only reason given was that it wasn't genetic. However, he is still offered at stud on the owner website. Does anyone know whether he is dead or alive, and if dead--why?

Feel free to reply in private, if you wish.

Yes he is dead. But no one is telling what happened to him.

And his littermates, Fly and Finess are producing in the states. Fly is at Adler Stein and Finess is at Alyeska.

Cathi Windus has a young male out of Fieval. She might have more info. She usually on this board.

Brad

Fievel...
yes , Fievel is dead.I train with Mike Williams, Fievels owner, and I can vouch for it. There are several litters around 3-6 months old from him in Fort Dodge, Iowa.
As someone mentioned, Mike Williams can provide more information on Fievels offspring if you need it. I have seen these pups, and there are some nice Schutzhund prospects.
Mikes email: cpn@frontiernet.net.<br />
As Brad Stout mentioned, I have a 16 month old Fievel male puppy. I really like him. He is over the top in drive. Very good in beginning obedience,an excellant tracker, but I am told the tracking comes from his grandfather on the moms side (Fero). His bite work so far is very good. He can be fiesty, I train him with motivation, toys and food. One main problem is, he is VERY dog agressive. Since I am training for Schutzhund, this is a really bad thing. I am working on several things to try and get it under control. I have read Ed Frawleys articles on aggression and am reading serveral good books on aggression. Hopefully I can work through it and get Schutzhund titles.
I have had two local police departments stop by Schutzhund training and after watching this pup, they wanted to buy him. So,they saw something they liked. I am new to Schutzhund and learning as I go with him. These pups are NOT for everyone. They are so high in drive, they nip and bite as you work them. In my opinion,they need a VERY calm handler. I have seen people take these dogs and try and boss them and push them around, with very poor results. I am trying to train my dog with calmness and firmness. He still trys to dominate occasionally, but is starting to realize he does not decide when things happen, I do. It will be a long road to Schutzhund titles, I really love his drive , but at the same time, I know there can be big issues if I do not think through every thing I do with him. I am also doing alot of obedience around blinds etc. I want him to be very obedient before doing alot of protection work.
Cathi Windus

My female is out of his littermate, Finess.

Drives over the top, more focus than I have ever seen particularly on a track, hard headed and also very hard, yet social and terribly loveable. Her father is Fado von der Lutter (Haska Karthago and Andy von der Lemper Heide)

I would be interested in understanding more about the characteristic of handler aggression, how it transmits, and prevalance in the male vs female dogs.

Also the insights of people on the board about training techniques and the expression of the trait.

I spent some time in Belgium, and with someone who personally knew a couple dogs from this litter - owned one actually! From our discussions, I believe that the females did not express the same traits as the males in handler aggressive or extreme dominance tendencies. I met Faro, and was told not to make eye contact as he would respond to even that provocation. Like it or not, believe it or not, there are many many many instances where dogs from certain bloodlines do express a common behavioral trait...just because not every one does, is not proof that the trait is not associated with the common denominator, in this case, Crok. I know certain breeders get very very very hostile at this idea - but there are many people who can testify first hand to extreme dominance and social aggression exhibited by more than a few Crok sons.

FWIW - the females from him do not ****seem**** to be getting this same reputation. I saw several dogs whose dams were Crok daughters and they did not exhibit the same dominating, arrogant presence as did Faro. The owner LOVED the attitude BTW...to each its own!

 Quote:

Originally posted by Lee Hough:
Like it or not, believe it or not, there are many many many instances where dogs from certain bloodlines do express a common behavioral trait...just because not every one does, is not proof that the trait is not associated with the common denominator, in this case, Crok. I know certain breeders get very very very hostile at this idea - but there are many people who can testify first hand to extreme dominance and social aggression exhibited by more than a few Crok sons.

LOL, Lee, very true... I hope you are wearing a bullet proof vest under your full-body bite suit <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .

It's true, though, that the females do not exhibit handler aggression and there are many fine bitches out of these lines. All the drives minus handler aggression--who could ask for more? But true dominance/social aggression in a bitch is very rare, I for one haven't seen any.

Cathi, sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck to you, let us know about your progress.

I can see the handler agression/dominance genes in my pup. How many generations down does this usually go? He is a Crok grandson/Fievel son.
So, would he probablly pass on the agression?
And would his sons/daughters pass it down?
Bred to the right female, can the hardness be passed on and start filtering out agresssion?

I don't know alot about how these genes are passed on. Any information would be appreciated.
Cathi Windus