My pup is nine and a half months old and I have had him since he was seven weeks old. His foundation has been strictly motivational and he is showing good drive and focus. He is on the puppy sleeve and coming along fairly well.
He is showing increased aggression. A few days ago I had him in a large parking lot and a man walked toward us and my pup went to the end of the leash and barked. He wasn't totally lit up, but about halfway. Today about 30 minutes after we did some protection work, I had one person bring his dog out on a leash while another person meandered around my pup, while working on a sit. My dog lit up toward the dog but I was able to get him to sit after a few corrections with the fursaver. I then walked him over to the other person who was standing still. He casually reached down and scratched my dog under the chin and my dog bit him. I was anticipating this behavior due to the other day, but kept a loose leash and gave a quick, half ass correction.
My plan to address the aggression is to go to the prong and give a strong correction for unwanted aggression. My concern is that training for the traffic part of the B might become a cue for aggression since it will be the only part of my training that isn't done in drive and is strictly compulsion due to my dog's increased aggression. Any creative ideas for managing this aggression without major conflict. When I did corect my pup he showed some mild handler aggression in that he quickly mouthed my hand but not to the point of being painful. I read the post on Fieval and get remaining calm when correcting this behavior. It happens that this pup's great grandsire is Crok.

A couple of points - there is no reason for someone to pet my dog. At least none that I have though of in the last 30 years of being around schutzhund.

Use the prong collar - get your dog out and around when other club members have dogs out. Do not be doing training when you do this - the fact is what you are doing is training in itself. Any barking gets a "NO" and strong correction - any handler aggression gets the dog hung - (remaining calm during this is very important)

Continue to do this and if the dog does not get it (after 3 or 4 sessions) - increase the level of corrections to the point of jerkling him off his feet. Bottom line is the dog needs to understand that this behavior is not tollerated not for any reason.You are the pack leader and he needs to respect your position on unwanted agggression.

Then there is always an electric collar but that should not have to be used on a 9 month old pup that is on leash.

Thanks Ed,
Regarding others petting my dog-I had planned to just have this person walk around my dog some but we didn't really discuss whether he would pet the dog. He just did and got bit. One concern is that this behavior will probably change some things. Up to now I have encouraged this pup to be comfortable around strangers, and now I'm feeling somewhat gunshy that when I take him out to socialize him, I can no longer trust him not to bite indiscriminately. I will have to keep him on a short lead all the time in public. I'm not sure what is driving this behavior. It doesn't seem to be fear based.
My initial response was to go to the prong and correct this behavior, but after getting some other opinions, I'm not so sure. It was pointed out to me that to squash this aggression is only going to interfere with the protection work, since this is a somewhat suspicious, defensive dog.

I have this saying I tell people again and again - EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION ON TRAINING YOUR DOG - just ask your neighbor or your postman or your grocer. The problem is not many people have the experience to back up their opinions - which means their advice has the same value as toilet paper.

Use a prong collar - make the dog wear a muzzle if he is going to be out in publick. This is not rocket science - if your dog has drive this is not going to hurt its protection work.

Mr. Frawley, what you are saying is interesting. When I initially took my dog out in public in earlier months she was extremely aggressive towards other animals.....period! Over time with a basic choke collar I have attempted to correct her aggressive behavior towards those animals. I can't even begin to count how many fence boards she has broken through when trying to get to a passing dog. At times it has been a real problem when training with other animals around. She has never showed any aggression towards me however. When in public she is quite tolerant of people, but gets a little leary when they get too close, yet is tolerant until they get physical. She does not like any quick movement near me also. She lunged to bite at a child who was running by me, although she was on a short lead so she was unsuccessful. Might a prong collar work well for her as in Chip's situation? I want to thwart the animal aggression, and lunging at children running by.

I am confused - you need to read my previous two answers do you not understand? This is an obedience problem on a weak nerved dog. A choke collar is not a training collar. You are the pack leader if you are firm, consistent, priase for the correct behavior your dog will get along just fine.

Ed,
While this is not rocket science, I'm not so sure managing this behavior is as simple as you suggest. I also realize that your opinions are not based on actually seeing the behavior. A couple of things to consider. This pup has good prey drive, but because of his suspicious, defensive tendencies, he was reluctant to engage the helper in the very early stages of bitework in prey. He is now showing decent commitment to biting the puppy sleeve, with a decent grip. Since his early prey work was inhibited, some might argue that the defensive response I'm seeing now is positive (not ideal, but positive in terms of the genetics I have to work with.) This reactive aggression (defense) might be the most useful protective drive I'll have to work with as this dog matures. If this aggression stems from situations the pup sees as threatening, does it make sense to punish him for feeling threatened? Also, since the goal of bitework is to develop aggression toward the bad guy, why would I punish aggression when it comes out naturally. It makes more sense to try to manage it in other ways for now, and be careful with my dog in situations that might trigger a defensive reaction.
I'd be interested in hearing others' opinions as well. Thanks.

Chip,
Read over some of the threads on the Czech dogs. Some of the Czech dogs are known for having a higher defense drive than prey drive. B/C of this the prey drive work is carefully calculated in an effort not to put the pup into defense too soon.

Is it possible during your training that the pup has been pressured into defense too soon (at this young age) and the prey drive not fully developed? When younger, my pup did not appear to have a high prey drive (not this off the wall stuff). It took months of building this drive and now she is doing VERY well. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have never introduced any defense, but she definately has a good defense drive and for this reason it will be months before I even consider this type of training. It's all about prey for now. (She is now 14 months).

Don't think that working defense is your only option. You may just need to work the prey a bit more in the form of play. (Remember, you stated your pup is only 9 months old, still a baby) Maybe stop the sleeve work and helper for a little while and work on prey and see if there is a difference. Those 'natural tendencies' certainly surface with maturity. I wouldn't want to push it to the point where he will be untrustworthy around people.

The obedience is a must, but depending on how your working your pup, make sure he is not getting mixed signals. Remember all the emotional stages the pup goes through.
Have fun with your pup and good luck.

Mr. Frawley,

I understand what you are saying, and yes I did read your previous answers. I have kept the dog on a choke chain with the corrections when it comes to the aggression with other animals, and when lunging after the children. I have been firm and consistant, but the aggression is natural to her (pack drive and prey drive). I guess that would be why the behavior has only decreased in intensity slightly despite my corrections. I am assuming from your response a prong collar would be adequate. Thank-you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Originally posted by Chip Blasiole:
Since his early prey work was inhibited, some might argue that the defensive response I'm seeing now is positive (not ideal, but positive in terms of the genetics I have to work with.) This reactive aggression (defense) might be the most useful protective drive I'll have to work with as this dog matures.

Chip,

I totally agree with you that even though not ideal, the defense drive is better that no drive and can be utilized in protection training, but the key point here is, as you yourself stated, “as this dog matures”. I have a bitch who absolutely refused to work in prey at around 10 months (despite her off-the-wall ball drive) and only bit (quite well) in defense. I didn’t feel comfortable pursuing this avenue, and since training her in prey was like beating a dead horse, I put her up for until she was 2.5 yrs old and concentrated on OB & TR. She still works in defense and wouldn’t do anything until triggered and maintained in defense, but she seems to be confident and does not back down. But that’s where the similarities between your dog and mine end. She has never been aggressive toward anyone off the field.

As you pointed out yourself, you have quite a hurdle to jump, which is BH. Ed said that there is no reason for anyone to pet your dog, so correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t one of the first questions a judge asks is “Can I pet your dog?” You can say “yes” and take a chance for being disqualified if the dog bites (I’ve done that once and got away with it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> ), or say “no” and the rest would be up to the judge (who may pressure your dog later during the temperament test). So this is definitely a problem which needs to be addressed.

“If this aggression stems from situations the pup sees as threatening, does it make sense to punish him for feeling threatened?”

I don’t think you will be punishing him for *feeling* threatened, that is part of his genetics, and even though genetics cannot be changed, it can be masked. That’s where the obedience comes in. You will be punishing him for reacting to a *perceived* threat in an aggressive manner, i.e. teaching him what’s a real threat and what’s not. You also mentioned elsewhere that you did everything in terms of proper socialization, so on this one I have to agree with Ed--some compulsion may be in order (a muzzle & a pinch). The ability to discern “real” threat from “imaginary” can only come with maturity and training. If you choose to continue with his bitework and he is willing to work in prey, fine, but if the sight of a decoy throws him in defense, I can see how a 9 mos old pup may become confused.

“It makes more sense to try to manage it in other ways for now, and be careful with my dog in situations that might trigger a defensive reaction.”

I’m not quite sure what you mean by this. What do you mean by “ be careful”? Not exposing him to situations or correcting him?