The closest thing to a real “working bread” dog is a pink breed-yes? – I think – but in my humble view (and i know nothing about seriouse breeding) breeders are responsible for the breeding of the “New age GSD” – a wonderful schutzhund chasse and designed / a bread dog labelled a “working dog” – well yes for schutzhund purposes, I have seen them and played and worked them, my hart pumped chocolates - and they excel at what they do – so do not get me wrong here I am not knocking the pink or any other line -but I have yet to see “The real working Dog” that is bread for protection and police work only.

The proverbial best all round hunting rifle, that comes from years of testing and building. In dog terms that comes from breading for the best working line - from a all pink line with “v”’ all over the blood line, how about a pp= personal protection line, with good nerve, build, drive, and a sober temperament with no or little issues, where you can take home the whole litter and start working and they will all just turn out great – some how they always lack one component, very good drive but bad nerves and so the list / equation goes on.

1) So the question is this, where are the true working police dogs being bread, and to be found?

2) Can dog’s be genetically bread to develop the ideal police dog?

Reinier
All your doing is starting a argument!
Just as Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, So is the perfict "Working Dog". Every one has there own openion of perfection. We all try in our own way to get the best possible with what we have.
Ron

I don't think anyone can answer that question accurately. Otherwise, we would all have excellent dogs.

Ron

Shame did I strike a nerve,or is the truth not to be found, well in my private mail some one was able to paint me a very interesting picture – in short – all breeders will agree that they only breed “working” dogs for their next generation breeding stock – no one cares a dam about the poor cop who has to put his life on the line with the BEAUTYFUL dog, v rated by the way, but the poor thing can not bite under pressure.

If trainers and breeders had to admit to this statement, then I would be a all new cattle of fish – now wont it.

Does any breeder care to comment?

Dogs are individuals, not machinery. K-9 officers are individuals with differing degrees of skills. Requirements differ in K-9 jogs. All of these factors play a role with the in result.

You start with a geneticaly sound pup, that is the beginning, but the dog has to be socialized and drives built up to be super effective in sport or work. Dogs are not robots that can be kenneled up until 12, 18 or 24 months and then expect the best out of a dog he had to offer from birth.

If you lack the ability to find a good dog at 2 years old. It stems more from poor ownership skills than, from the dog's genetics. In general if you want to find the problem with the way dogs work, look in the mirror.

 Quote:

Originally posted by REINIER Geel:
The closest thing to a real “working bread” dog is a pink breed-yes? – I think – but in my humble view (and i know nothing about seriouse breeding) breeders are responsible for the breeding of the “New age GSD” – a wonderful schutzhund chasse and designed / a bread dog labelled a “working dog” –
SNIP

In dog terms that comes from breading for the best working line - from a all pink line with “v”’ all over the blood line, how about a pp= personal protection line,

Reading this thread - and re-reading the orginal question carefully - I will **CONCLUDE*** that RG is speaking of the majority of breeders in Germany who breed "working" high lines - "pink papers" and "all pink line with'v' all over the blood line"....

If I am right in my conclusion - he is preaching to the choir and has just not dug deeply enough to see that what ever dogs he is looking at, they are probably not what *we* on this board will commonly call "working lines"......!!!!!

Most of the WL do not have "v" all over the papers LOL LOL - there are a few V rated dogs out there, I have bred to one, but they are few and far between! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have a question for Geel, where do you find your own stock you use for police work?

I agree that this is a difficult question to answer. First you have to agree on what the perfect working dog would be. There is a lot of dissagreement. Then do you put these qualities above health. If the dog dies in the first year his perfect working ability doesn't mean much. If he has bad hips, back, teeth etc. working abilty doesn't mean much. There are a thousand traits a good breeder is trying to rap into the same package with the idea of creating the perfect package that can also pass on his characteristics. You can do everything right and still get sh*t. Or two good prospects and the rest not so good for police work.

Also different Police dept's want differnt things. It is hard to get the hardness every one wants in a dog that is not going to be a liability for the Department.

1) So the question is this, where are the true working police dogs being bread, and to be found?


2) Can dog’s be genetically bread to develop the ideal police dog?

ooops.... sorry!

As far as where the true working police dogs are..... They are out there, but you have to hunt for them. Even if you took the two greatest working dogs ever produced and had litter after litter you still would find it difficult to find true working police dogs on a consistant basis.

2) Can dog’s be genetically bread to develop the ideal police dog?

If you look at genetics openly, you will see that you would never be able to produce any desired trait on any consistant basis. There is always the recessive. No litter of pups would all turn out to be the same with all the pups growing up to be of the same tempermant with the same level of drives. If you were able come up with an agreed upon list of traits that you want to see in a police dog (good luck) it would be extreemly difficult for even a larger scale breeder to accomplish this. You would have to start with an enormous "state sponsored" breeding program. You would end up creating some mutant dog.... generations of crossing GSD's, Mal's, Dutch's and gosh knows what else! Is the working dog world ready for "super mutt" I don't think we are that open minded yet.