OK here's the deal. My little male Mal turned 12wks on the 10th of this month. He never did anything until this week. I never pushed him nor anything frankly to bring it out of him. Basically, for right now I don't do anything but play and do light exercising. The light exercising consists of my jogging on turf as he runs around near me like a fool in the dirt to the grass, to pretty much wherever. I go at like 11:30pm to 12:00am (when nobody is anywhere on the crosscountry track) and run my mile and a half while he does what he wants as it is entirely fenced in. He'll keep most of the time but he'll sniff then bolt to catch up and then stop and smell and do his thing and so on.

Next, I take him on the campus, take him through the building (late night) through dark hallways, lighted areas, the basement of this one building (classrooms, loud vents, etc). Then I walk to the strip where all the drunken idiots are and he can watch and see all the screams and all the craziness they project.

But it started this week. I mean out of nowhere. Just out of the blue and I was suprised.

I was walking and this one guy named "crazy bob" was walking by and the dog started to bark at him. I looked and patted him and let him know that was ok. Then I took him on campus and some poeple were coming out of the library and he barked at them. Then he barked at this guy across the way.

I continue to walk around and this one guy is coming from the grass, he notices, then barks at him. I go to the bar strip and he barks at them.

Then Fri night I brought him on a ride with me about 2hrs away. I bring him inside the mall. yes, inside. Upon entering he barked at some passerby'sand caught the eye of this one lady. We talked for a bit about working dogs and then I went in. Inside the mall, he didn't bark at anyone. He's never seen so many peoiple before. People were shocked at me walking this dog around the mall and got a bunch of stares and smiles. Not one person complained. My excuse was if the security dudes came to me was I was looking for the pet store. They had one but remodelled. So no biggie. Nothing was said. So I walked around for about 10-15min and then walked outside. Then walked to all the entrances of the mall.

Anyhow, I came home and there was this lady, God knows what she was doing at 3:30am walking around the complex with a stroller as she could barely walk. He freaked out and started barking his head off.

Soorry to make this so long but here is the question.

What do I do? Is this ok, and at this age, should I refrain from reprimanding the dog?

My thing is this. I want him to be full of fire and spirit but I want him controlled. I don't want a dog that will try to bite everyone that comes in contact. So am I promoting something that'll multiply itself into problems?

Thx

Couple things...


I don't think taking that pup to jog with you is a good idea. Even though the pup is loose and can choose not to run, at this age, most will just to stay close to you.

Secondly, barking at strange people at night... I don't see as a problem. He was startled a little, and remember their eyes aren't the greatest yet either. Barking doesn't equate to biting everyone later. lol..

My dog went through a similar thing at around the same time frame. We were traveling and staying in hotels all over the place- he got suprised a bit by some people popping out from in behind cars at night and sounded off. Night adds a bit more dynamic to the suprise for the pup.

 Quote:

I looked and patted him and let him know that was ok

Is it possible that when you intended to reassure him he thought you were praising and re-inforcing the behaviour? Also consider your own frame of mine. If I were in the presence of drunks and people named "Crazy Bob" I probably wouldn't be entirely relaxed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . That late at night you are probably staying very alert to your surroundings. He could be picking that up.

I agree with Pam that your 'reassuring' the puppy when it was barking was confirming to it that the world is a scary place and all new people are possibly horrifying. There is a correct way to socialize a puppy to make it happy and confident in new places and with new people, and you seem to be having a few problems right now.

To make it hard on you, and the reason this just started up, is that right around 12 weeks our pups start up a 'fear' stage. And if we don't get them thru it properly they may end up fearful dogs that are not good in public and not likely to look at people/other dogs as anything other than a possible threat or something to be afraid of.

Here are some sites about the mental and emotional stages our pups go thru the first year of so, helps to be aware of them and what to do when they crop up. As well as the importance of proper socialization.

http://www.doberman.org/articles/puppy.htm

http://www.nwk9.com/early_life_management01.htm

http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/lib-Puppy.htm#soc

http://www.nwk9.com/dehasse_pupdev.htm

I have found that some people, when wanting to raise pups as protection type dogs, really go out of their way to NOT have their pups interact with the world in the fear they will then love everyone and not do the protection wanted in the future. The result of avoiding interaction with other people and dogs in this manner sometimes will give a dog that 'appears' to be protective, with the barking and growling. But it's not from a CONFIDENT and intelligent thinking dog that is really determining the situation clearly (ie a murderer is coming vs. my mother-in-law is trying to get in the house) but rather a dog that is afraid of everyone and everything because it has not really learned bad vs good rather that EVERYONE is bad.

Additionally, I know I would never trust my 12 week olds instinct for 'the bad guy'. I've raised 3 dogs now from puppyhood and the things that they'd bark at when that age went everything from someone wearing a weird hat, to suddenly startling them coming around a corner, to making a sudden move, etc. NONE of which were real threats to me. All of which got a barking at from my pups, until I approached the people to show my pup that they were ok, cause I said they were ok.

Glad to hear you are working on this with such a young pup! 12 weeks old is plenty of time to get the confident, happy pup you'll want for any training situation. Are you able to work with any trainers or clubs for hands on assistance or answers to your questions?

 Quote:

Originally posted by Pamela Diller:

 Quote:

I looked and patted him and let him know that was ok

Is it possible that when you intended to reassure him he thought you were praising and re-inforcing the behaviour? Also consider your own frame of mine. If I were in the presence of drunks and people named "Crazy Bob" I probably wouldn't be entirely relaxed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . That late at night you are probably staying very alert to your surroundings. He could be picking that up.

You cracked me up when you said the thing about ol' crazy bob and the drunks. He's (Crazy Bob) a little nutty but doesn't say anything or bother me in anyway. haha. About the drunks, yea, I just don't let them get stupid with him. Most are pretty cool and just want to pet him.

Originally posted by Jenn Kavanaugh:
I agree with Pam that your 'reassuring' the puppy when it was barking was confirming to it that the world is a scary place and all new people are possibly horrifying. There is a correct way to socialize a puppy to make it happy and confident in new places and with new people, and you seem to be having a few problems right now.

To make it hard on you, and the reason this just started up, is that right around 12 weeks our pups start up a 'fear' stage. And if we don't get them thru it properly they may end up fearful dogs that are not good in public and not likely to look at people/other dogs as anything other than a possible threat or something to be afraid of.

Here are some sites about the mental and emotional stages our pups go thru the first year of so, helps to be aware of them and what to do when they crop up. As well as the importance of proper socialization.

http://www.doberman.org/articles/puppy.htm

http://www.nwk9.com/early_life_management01.htm

http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/lib-Puppy.htm#soc

http://www.nwk9.com/dehasse_pupdev.htm

I have found that some people, when wanting to raise pups as protection type dogs, really go out of their way to NOT have their pups interact with the world in the fear they will then love everyone and not do the protection wanted in the future. The result of avoiding interaction with other people and dogs in this manner sometimes will give a dog that 'appears' to be protective, with the barking and growling. But it's not from a CONFIDENT and intelligent thinking dog that is really determining the situation clearly (ie a murderer is coming vs. my mother-in-law is trying to get in the house) but rather a dog that is afraid of everyone and everything because it has not really learned bad vs good rather that EVERYONE is bad.

Additionally, I know I would never trust my 12 week olds instinct for 'the bad guy'. I've raised 3 dogs now from puppyhood and the things that they'd bark at when that age went everything from someone wearing a weird hat, to suddenly startling them coming around a corner, to making a sudden move, etc. NONE of which were real threats to me. All of which got a barking at from my pups, until I approached the people to show my pup that they were ok, cause I said they were ok.

Glad to hear you are working on this with such a young pup! 12 weeks old is plenty of time to get the confident, happy pup you'll want for any training situation. Are you able to work with any trainers or clubs for hands on assistance or answers to your questions? The thing is he's not afraid by any means in terms of his behavior and actions. He's not barking and cowering away. He's pulling on the end of the leash to go up to them while barking. Like I was going into my house and the neighbor was passing by me appx 5ft away and he started barking. I had to pull on him to get him in the house as he wanted to go to the guy. We both had things to do so I pulled him in the house and let him loose while I grab something to eat.

But it doesn't matter if its day or night, raining or not. He'll bark at them. He'll go up to anyone to get a pat. He's not skittish or afraid at all. I think he's just really outgoing. That's why I wanted to know if I should be doing more. I haven't seen the shy or scared mode yet in this guy. If I did it was really vague. I will go through those links you provided and run through them and post up if I have some more questions regarding it.

So with that said ( him being confident and going to them while barking not away from, he barks during the day in pure daylight, etc), should I still use your advice or should I adjust the processes?

 Quote:

Originally posted by Deanna Thompson:
Couple things...


I don't think taking that pup to jog with you is a good idea. Even though the pup is loose and can choose not to run, at this age, most will just to stay close to you.

Secondly, barking at strange people at night... I don't see as a problem. He was startled a little, and remember their eyes aren't the greatest yet either. Barking doesn't equate to biting everyone later. lol..

My dog went through a similar thing at around the same time frame. We were traveling and staying in hotels all over the place- he got suprised a bit by some people popping out from in behind cars at night and sounded off. Night adds a bit more dynamic to the suprise for the pup.

But then there is NO WAY to burn all his energy. even then I don't burn all of it. I have heard many say " A tired pup is a good pup" or something to that effect. But this is virtually impossible. B/c after you are done, 5min later he's back at it again full of energy. Tug of war can go on for hours. What do you do to tire your pups out for a little bit?

I don't have issues with your exercise regime. If you were dragging him on a leash for the 1/2 hour, that would be different. I was on long off leash hikes by 12 weeks with all 3 dogs I raised, and they are just fine. And I agree with you that by 12 weeks I was mostly hard put to wear out my pups. So I would keep that up, only go to more new places. Do you have any friends with good dogs or puppies? Having a pile of dogs run and play together is a sure way to tire out a puppy in my experience.

Maybe you just need to work on getting your pups attention BEFORE it starts barking. Reward that with a bit of hotdog/chicken/whatever (the looking at you when he turns as you call his name). Kind of young for much of a pop correction at this point, though you can try a softer one with a 'no' and praise when he stops the barking and looks at you.

Will say, I found that (and you did to in the crowd?) when I'm out meeting lots of people, it's just to much to bark at if my pups get excited so they are better behaved. And EVERY time I have well behaved pups in public that is a good thing. So maybe if you do up you meet/greets in public. Outside the Walmart, Main St USA, Home Depot, a puppy class, etc. All that may make new people and dogs NOT SO FREAKING OVERWHELMINGLY EXCITING, and with it more a 'normal' thing the barking may stop.

Good luck, read everything, ask everyone, and do what works best for you and your pup!

Hey Jenn, I was looking in the socializing site and I read this. I don't agree with this at all. Maybe I am wrong but I don't like the idea of this.

You agree with me or with the author of that particular article?

Here it is..

.....Keep a bowl of puppy food by the door so visitors can treat him when they arrive.

.....Keep a bowl of puppy food by the door so visitors can treat him when they arrive.




I don't want my dog seeking out stranger for food. Nor do I want the dog to think anyone that comes through the front door is someone to be trusted all the time. Am I wrong with what assumption?

Think about the liablity of a biting mal. all my gsds are socilaize at everything that I can get. If I didnt I would have a bundle of nerves that would think that hello is bite bite bite. my GSD that I am working right now gets socilized all the time. For very bit of bite work we do I double the socilization. Believe me he knows his job. just try to come in my house. a mal does not need much bite work to learn there job. I wokk with a security companys k9 unit and there is one mal there that was not socilized right at a young age. He loves to bite. Even his new handler. This happened due to the wrong up bringing. Having a well balance dog will be easyer to handle and less liablity. So socilize it.

Dave