There is a lot of talk about belgian, german or czechlines. But what about the quality of other countries GSDs? There must be workinglines in other countries that have been breed for workingtraits during many generations, and where there is no german dogs in the pedigree for at least 4-5 generations back. And how many generations must it take before a dog could be considered of belgian lines, danish lines or whatever?

I´m intressted to know about other countries working GSDs, lines that is truly special for that country and their quality. Are there for example workinglines in poland, england or some other country that people don´t often talk about, and how do they test their breedingstock, SCH is not so common in every country I guess like in belgium or germany.

You just plain won't find a working population of GSDs anywhere in the world that are without a German dog in 4-5 generations.

The closest are the Czech/Slovak lines, but even those are barely 4-5 generations out of WG or DDR blood. . .and have crosses intermingled throughout. You could find an example here or there that may be an exception, but not the whole bloodline.


I don't think the Belgians have their own "bloodlines" honestly. They are too integrated with the West German lines to be considered different.

The Dutch are the same.


When I was in Hungary their working lines were a blend of German BDR/DDR and Czech. When I was in Bulgaria their working lines were mostly Czech and DDR, but had been bred in the region by a few breeders on their own for about 3-4 generations. But those were only a couple of guys, not the population as a whole.


You are looking for something that doesn't exist, I'm afraid. It really speaks to the quality of the German's dogs that so many people around the world continually breed back to their working stock. (forgetting about the pathetic showlines, of course LOL)

I wish it was the case that there were some holdout true working bloodlines of dogs selected generation after generation for working ability . . .might be nice to see another pool of genetics to draw on. . .but it isn't out there.

I guess all GSDs goes back to german dogs if you trace their pedigrees far back. But my thought was that it must be some countries which have a population of GSDs where you see no german dogs so close, and breed for some kind of workingability, like the czech/slovak lines, or even less influenced by german dogs.

Here in sweden there are bloodlines free from german dogs, at least no closer than the early 70s, and in some dogs you have to go back to the early 60s or even older to find a german dog, breed here for generations without influence from popular german dogs like ferro, mink and others often find in many workinglines today.
SCH/IPO wasn´t introduced here before the early 90s, but there was still many breeders who breed for workingability, like polic/armywork and our own dogsports.
I thought that more countries was doing the same thing, breeders who breed for workingability using their own countrys lines without depending on german dogs.

I thought you would bring up your own country and maybe you can educate me a little about the dogs being bred there.

I've seen two types of breedings generally from Sweden. I see untitled generations of dogs where there are few West German dogs in the close pedigrees, but quite a few DDR dogs. I also see working generations with titles from various certifications and dogsports, but in all that I've seen I find West German and major DDR influence very close in the bloodlines. Practically intermixed constantly throughout.

I draw a few basic conclusions from looking at breedings like that, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong. One, the dogs full of non-German pedigrees tend to be more pet-show-unproven working stock. Two, the working stock that show a variety of titles and who dominate your own dogsports are very much crossed with DDR and BDR bloodlines. . .much like everywhere else in the world.

I suspect that if there are dedicated proven working lines free of German dogs going back to the 70s that they are a few breeders here and there, not the population as a whole. Much the same as I've seen in the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Bulgaria. Also similar to the Dutch dogs. (who are actually more closely related I think due to the similarities of your dogsports)


How close am I?

It´s true that you see DDR/BDR dogs close up here too, if you define close 2-3 generations back. It´s also true that not all dogs are titled in SCH like in germany, based on the fact that SCH is new here. But as you said there are certifications from other sports and tests, not all this titles are shown in the pedigrees, if you have seen some dogs without titles they are in many cases policedogs or some kind of other servicedogs. I guess this is not easy to know if you don´t know the swedish working GSDs or what the titles in the pedigree stands for.

But besides the dogs with major german influence, you have also many dogs which I guess you could call swedish workinglines, because there are no german dogs or very few 4-5 generations back or longer.
The quality of these lines are quite good I think, judging from the results from the WUSV, where mixes between these lines and more modern german workinglines have done very well.

Would you agree or disagree that Sweden has their own "bloodline". I've seen very little, so you can educate me, but I'm thinking the bloodlines are similar to Belgium or Holland in that there are enough German dogs in close influence that you have more of an offshoot, not what I'd call a bloodline.

I consider 2-3 generations fairly close, 4-5 generations not so close.


From what I understood from your first question, I don't think there are indiginious dedicated bloodlines of working GSDs left in the world. The Czechs came the closest, but there is still an ongoing DDR/BDR influence (even during the cold war).

Yes, I would say there is swedish bloodlines, meaning no german dogs until mid 70s or even further back.

Would you say there are differences in the Swed dogs that can be seen in temperament and working drives?

Are there any good examples of these bloodlines to view online? (pictures, pedigrees, kennels)