I'm new to schutzhund, and I have several questions...and let me just say I'm VERY glad this board exists. In the late eighties I was at the national level in cycling, and schutzhund reminds me of cycling at that time: a very difficult European sport that is getting steadily more popular, but is still very mysterious to most Americans because of a lack of awareness of it (and of course, the extreme difficulty of it). Which is why I feel what Ed is doing with Bernhard Flincks is such a great thing. That being said, my situation is this: I adopted a 13 month old rott back in october. The dog acted like a nut, always wanting to play. I found a trainer, a very experienced guy from Italy who got his first schutzhund title when he was nine. After several weeks of basic training with him, I started to really develop an interest in the sport. He tested the rott, and said he had decent prey drive, and lots of defense drive. During the tests, which I will elaborate if anyone is interested, the dog never raised hackles, he never back down, even when I was out of sight, and the whip only seemed to fire him up even more. I apologize for the length of this post, I just feel it necessary to give some background. This dog has no pegigree, he was a rescue. He DOES NOT have the prey drive of a real working line dog, but there is enough there to work with. The trainer feels he can handle the protection work in a trial. Are there many dogs in schutzhund like this, or are most from great working lines? i am very attached to this dog and cannot have a second yet, and after buying many many tapes from leerburg, I am very hooked on the sport. Will i get laughed off the field with this non-working-line dog? I am also interested if any of the senior trainers out there that post regularly here got off to similar starts in the sport, or did you simply go out and purchase a real working dog? Thank you for any insight...

Give it a try, sounds like you may have a nice dog. Are you going to go to the Nationals? I kinda doubt it, but a title and a helluva lotta fun and experience sounds reasonable.

Have fun.

as the person that helped fuel my interest in the sport once told me...

"Train what you've got, it can only make you a better more rounded trainer. Then when you're ready, get one of those insane type drive dogs"

I say go for it, learn as much as you can. Even if you can't get the dog titled, look at the wealth of experience and knowledge you will have gained, and have a very nicely trained dog to boot.

I think it was Doug Deacon who won the Nationals in the 80's with a mixed breed. Goes to show you you don't need a pedigree to do the work. If you enjoy the work and the dog does too go for it. This is the way to learn and gain experience. Go have some fun <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I think you'll find that Schutzhund is sort of a two-tiered sport: there is one tier of folks who have your "regular" dogs and just enjoy the excitement and challenge of Schutzhund, and then there's another tier that imports top-of-the-line dogs from Belgium and Germany and wants to compete at the national level (and occasionally you'll meet a "casual" trainer who happens upon a great dog and has to compete in the Nationals anyway <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ).

My new Schutzhund candidate also came from rescue. She's a GSD/Malinois mix and I got her because she was deemed "too difficult to handle" (i.e. too much DRIVE) by the rescue people. She may not have the genetic stuff to be a national-level Schutzhund dog, but she's way too much dog to be a pet and I'm sure she's going to enjoy the sport. Probably a lot like your Rottie. As Mike said, "train what you've got" and you will be better for it.

One day, who knows, maybe you will compete at the top ranks of the sport. And, as Karmen's story illustrates, it's not always the high-priced imported dogs that will take you there. In the meantime, enjoy Schutzhund for what it is: probably the toughest thing you will ever do, but also the most gratifying. Most "dog trainers" in your neighborhood will never take a dog to anywhere near this level.

Pete Felknor

I really appreciate all the supportive comments from everyone...I feel that it would be a TREMENDOUS accomplishment to get a Sch.1 and I'm glad to hear that there are lots of dogs out there that have gone to very high levels in the sport without being from super working lines. This board seems like a REAL COMMUNITY where the concern is for the dogs rather than the glory of sport success for the owner, thanks.....

Scott--

You've hit on something very important too. Ultimately Schutzhund should be ABOUT THE DOGS. If you've got a dog that can do the work then it's a great way for you and your dog to have fun and to build a bond. If your dog doesn't like it... there are always lots of other fun things to do with a dog.

You'll meet some monster egos in the sport. Don't be put off by them. The sport is changing and nowadays a lot of judges prefer to see dogs that are obviously happy to be out there working with their handlers more than dogs that are 100% technically correct--but show no joy. This is as it should be. Trainers like Bernhard Flinks and Ivan Balabanov are making a tremendous inpact on the way Schutzhund training is done. You're picking a great time to get started.

Pete Felknor

Thanks Pete, I need to confess that the trainer I'm using suggested that if I was serious about the sport, to get a real working dog. I've watched him with his puppies (he just bred his dog who is a son of sid vom haus gremm). it is truly AMAZING watching these puppies go nuts for any toy waved at them and how quickly they learn things through their drive. My dog takes longer to learn things and lots more praise than these dogs do, and that's been a little discouraging. Since I've been reading the Leerburg site, I switched to the BARF diet and seen incredible results. Living in a HUGE city and having little apt. space has curtailed my ability to have a second dog, which would be one of his puppies, and that would be too expensive as well now that I'm a firm believer in the natural diet. Finding my dog another home so that I could have a real working dog to compete in schutzhund just doesn't seem like the right thing to do, which I confess I've thought about after watching the Flincks videos and the trainer's puppies....but my dog is wonderful and I plan on following the advice given me here on this board..."work with what you got" and that will make me better for when I'm ready for a real working dog....

I hear you, and you're right about wanting to do the right thing for your current dog. He'll probably do okay. Train for that SchH1 and that should keep you busy for a long while.

I know a woman who adopted a very, very mild-mannered GSD from rescue. He was no one's idea of a "working dog"--but still, through perseverance and lots of gentle encouragement, she put the SchH1 on this dog. As she said, "It wasn't pretty" (the scores were something like 84-72-80) but they made it. And they both had a lot of fun training.

There are those who think it takes a better trainer to bring a less-than-spectacular dog up through SchH1 than to take a titled dog from Europe to SchH3. One thing's for sure--you are going to learn a lot on the way.

Pete Felknor