My now 7 months old SAR GSD has been everything I could hope for. Great nerves, very social, prey drive and hunt drive up the whazoo. Everything I've done with him has been entirely motivational at this point, and I've started schutzhund training with him. That is also all motivational at this point. He has had absolutely no problem distinguishing a "victim" from the helper at this point. In fact, the bark and hold has helped him emensly from being to "enthusiastic" with SAR "victims". My TD says Thunder is very clear headed about what he's doing and doesn't see any problems with this. The future is yet to come, but at this time, I have no intention of putting any defense on him. I'm in it to do well, but if defense creates a problem, I'll be happy without it.
In 50 plus years of having dogs, I've never had a dog that was so easy/willing to learn ANYTHING I've asked of him. Even my wife absolutely loves him....well, there's that shedding issue <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .
All things being equal, SAR is what he will be. Does anyone forsee any problems with this, or anything I might avoid?

I'd be very careful working the dog in protection as he is maturing, especially the ages between 12 months and 24 months.


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Other than that, sounds like you have a winner.

VC, his schutzhund work will be strictly as a sport. Do you view protection work as something besides this, or part of sport schutzhund?

In this case I'm saying be careful during the protection phase of your sport training. With some dogs they might have a genetic inkling to take even sporty protection a bit more serious than you intend.

I have not done both types of training, I have not done SAR training much at all. . .I HAVE raised dogs that I placed as patrol dogs and it seemed that with the good ones. . .even with just basic prey based protection work. . .they started to come alive during live trail work and drive went through the roof. That drive, and the stress/excitement of the hunting brought out the aggression at the end of the track. I of course was promoting it and rewarding it, but it was right there under the surface.

I would just want to be careful of that aspect of the dog's working temperament.

Especially if helper work isn't great.

Thanks again VC! Your explination makes plenty of sence. I'm fortunate to have a number of Schutzhund clubs in this area and, after visiting most of them, I think I've got a great TD/helper.

You're really fortunate if you have SAR group that is pro, or even neutral, to sch. The group I worked with out here was hesitant about even allowing dogs that looked like working-lines dogs. So I made the decision to do schutzhund with her instead.

I guess I kinda understand that position when they are sitting in the insurance office, trying to get a policy written. OTOH, they rejected some really good dogs in the past because they had -- a BH (and a CGC, btw).

They do allow PSDs, though, and several people advised me to just not mention the sch unless it came up...

Bob,
I agree with VC. You just have to be aware of what the dog is bringing to the table and be honest with yourself about it. I sold my last SAR candidate to a Sheriff's Dept. b/c had a lot of aggression and a low defensive threshold. I never discouraged his biting as a pup b/c I was considering doing SchH & SAR, but b/c of his characteristics he was just more suited to SchH/Patrol work. I would have kept him for SchH, but an K9 officer that I trained with needed a dog.

With the right dog and sound training you can do both, especially if you & the dog can regard the protection work in 'sport' terms.

I can relate to Stephan. Our SAR team was basically afraid our our dogs when they first met them. My wife's dog changed, in a positive way, the way most of the people on our team viewed GSDs.
Also, at 7 months don't even consider tapping into your dog's defensive side. Wait till he's closer to 24 months at least, and with a helper that knows what he's doing.

Bob, I think you'll find a variety of opinions on this issue, and the one that counts the most, of course, is your SAR team; that is, if you are serious about maintaining membership with them. Cross training for protection sports may or may not be included in the team guidelines.

One concern that I would have is with the "dog who can do it all" syndrome. How many activities can your dog participate in before performance in one area suffers? What if that one area is SAR? Then there's the "cross training" issue; a lot of people think that you can either cross train and have a dog that's mediocre at everything, or you can specialize and have a dog that is great at one thing.

These are just questions you should ask yourself; I haven't made up my own mind one way or the other. I know that there are SAR dog handlers who also participate in SchH. Are you on the SARDogs list?

Sounds like you got good responses but also consider what to do when the search problems get longer and longer and longer --- it seems I spend all weekends (well 1 to 1.5 full days) doing SAR training these days...between being both a dog handler AND a victim for other dog handlers.

I don't know how we could possible make the time for other training....and I would NOT keep silent about it. It is only fair to the team because if someone gets nicked by a shutzhund dog the press and insurance companies could have a field day, regardless of all the arguments you could make in support of the sport training and control it brings.

Well, at the risk of restating, I decided to do sch with my dog and drop the sar. I thought it was a particularly witless suggestion from one of the training officers.

H*** I don't let people play with my dog since even toenail scratches from my dog could be misconstrued. I value my girl too much to put her in that kind of position.