Hi Everyone!
Just looking for some more advice <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Willow has been trained on a braided nylon choke colar, and has done very well.
She does, however require a VERY strong 'pop' when I give a correction. I would say a 7 or 8 on a 1-10 scale. Anything less, and she just ignores/can't feel it.
I beleive that the prong is safer for her neck, and would make corrections easier on me.
My only question is: once she is trained w/ the prong, if I went back to the choke (for competition Obed.) would she still listen to me?
Thax,
Aimee

I think she'll mind you after that.

I'd go with a prong. It's not cruel or more dangerous than a choke collar I've heard. Unless she's very young I think it's fine. How old is she out of curiousity?

I'm not a trainer or expert, this is based off what I've learned here, read, and watched on video.

Thanks for the speedy reply!
She's 10 months old.
I too have heard that the prong is safer than a choke. Do they go high up on the neck like a choke? I assume that the corrections don't have to be as tough? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Aimee

I went through this debate a few months ago, here is what I came up with.

I was told how to use the prong and how great it was and bla bla bla, so I used it at training one day with my 5-6 month old pup, well after a few corrections my pup was giving me this look, so we took a break and I asked him what was wrong, and he told me, "Dad, why are you correcting me with this pinch collar for things you have not taught properly? Don't you know I will do anything you ask as long at you teach me what you want properly?"

At this I asked a trusted friend what I should do about this, his reply was to get this book "Fundamentals of learning and motivation" by Frank Logan and I would never need to ask another training question. By golly I took a leap of faith and did it. I have not used collar correction sience and my now 8 month old pup is preforming better then I ever could have imagined.

I get laughed at, critisized, shuned and caped on by a great many people for my "Training methods" but the proof is in my dog when at the training field off leash and others twice his age are being drug around by the collar giving corrections/yelling at their dogs and I'm running my routine and he is doing eveything as good as I taught him, it really puts a smile on my face and leaves thoes same people I'm sure wondering how an 8 month old dog can preform like that.

So everytime I feel like a correction I give one to myself.

Aimee,
Yes, if you decide to use the prong collar they are placed high on the neck.(they do not go on over the dogs head)Remove a link and place collar around neck, refasten link. There have been a few post on fitting and using the prong collar in TRAINING with a PRONG COLLAR, check them out.

Using the prong the corrections will be much more less then the choke collar. Level 7-8 with choke collar should be A LEVEL 3 with prong.
Good luck with your female.

Aimee, what Lonny was getting at is that your dog should be complying to your commands because she wants to please you. Not because she's concerned about getting a correction. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Remember your dog must completly understand the command before a correction is given.

Aimee,

While a prong may be required, I think it is more likely that you are not making the correction with the slip properly. At 10 months many people haven't even started with a correction collar yet. I always use the nylon slips for all the training I do. The 2 exceptions were a very heavily coated GSD and Giant that I didn't get until he was 2. With a puppy started with a slip I have never had to change.

The thing with a slip collar is it is a 2 step correction done very quickly. Tighten and then release quickly. The release part is the most important. It is the suprise that makes the correction effective. If the release is too slow the correction isn't as effective. The idea is not to over power the dog, just get it's attention refocused.

Each step up in a correction collar will often limit your ability to take the correction higher. If the prong is just used for a short period of time, you may be able to go back to the slip collar. It is possible to condition the dog to the correction requiring ever higher corrections. This can be avoided by working on making the tightening and release of the collar one, fluid motion with no hesitation in the tightened position.

Aimee, I first trained my dog on a flat coller using food and positive reinforcement. He was at the time fairly soft (and still is), learned VERY quickly and was too smart for his own good. Around 8 months I had to use a choke chain (he was in a stubborn period), but I didn't like the results. Perhaps I didn't use it effectively, but when he needed a physical correction as opposed to a verbal one this coller wasn't working for us. 3 other members of the class switched to a prong at the same time. While our dogs were inattentive using the flat and choke collers 1 good pop got their attention, especially during quick changes in heeling and again if the dog felt like forging to meet another dog while on a walk.

I used this coller off and on during training and occasionally during walks for about 10 months. Whenever he was being "stupid" I would put the coller on. I gradually weaned him off the coller and back on the flat for obedience routines. Over the years for refresher courses I have switched to using the flat and he is fine. I did invest in a martingale slip chain coller as well, just in case. Occasionally he has needed it but I found that he "thinks" it's the prong. After about 5 minutes on the martingale I can take it off and go back to the flat. But that is only for the picture perfect obedience. In day to day obedience he is just super without it and I normally only use verbal corrections now.

The moral of my story is that if one coller isn't working effectively, either because of handler error, or the phase of development that the dog is at, don't be afraid to try another. You should be able to effectively switch back to a flat coller once the dog is older and both of you have the experience.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Another thing I forgot to mention. I frequently see dogs on all kinds of "choke" collers. Most seem to have no more reason to obey then when on a flat. Many owners (including myself) cannot effectively use a choke chain/coller. They don't work as well on dogs that are pain insensitive, have very tough neck, or a lot of fur. To me it would be much more humane to use a prong. My class members and I tried it on our bare skin. It didn't hurt. It became a much more effective tool for us to use at that time in order to achieve the response we desired.

How many other dog owners become horrified at the thought of a prong but will let their dog drag them through the streets using a choke chain, while the dog is gagging and coughing? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Captain Correction is silent on this matter?LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Originally posted by Caniche:


How many other dog owners become horrified at the thought of a prong but will let their dog drag them through the streets using a choke chain, while the dog is gagging and coughing? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I see it all the time <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />