I am currently working with a local shelter. Getting some of thier dogs better fit for adoption. My friend and I were approached by a Vet that also volunteers his time there. And was pretty much berated for using a pinch collar. Now I know this guy is way off base. But he mentioned there have been cases of the nerves running along the side of the dogs neck because of pinch collars. I have never heard of this before. I think this guy was just trying to find a way out of an argument he was losing. He said his method of choice is a halti. Even for corrections. Has anyone ever heard of this before. Are there websites were I can research this.

Thanks in advance for any help. Im still looking for that study about the damage caused by slip collars also.

I retired a dog from obedience competition years ago because of my heavy handed(at the time) training methods. That was with a choke collar. I wish I knew more about a pinch back then. Haltis may have a place in training but I've always felt if the dog hit the end of the leash with it's head in the wrong position, it will wind up with serious neck injury. No expierience with one, JMO.

Gee.... And I bet you can buy the Halti from him too! Evil, Evil prong people! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I just happen to be re-editing the section on my Basic Dog Obedience video on training collars. What a ridiculous comment on prong collars. Just another example of someone being certified to treat a dogs medical problems but being clueless about training issues. These are two totally different disciplines and the vast majority of Vets are not dog trainers. I respect Vets that go out and learn to train, I don’t respect Vets that ASSUME that they should pass on information on training when in fact they have never had proper training themselves. This Vet falls into this category.

In my opinion a Halti is a very poor training tool. Those that think it is are misguided.

Mike, please check your private messages. I have some info for you.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I have found the head collar to be useful in handling my 8 yo pet mixed breed bitch's dog aggressive behavior while on leash (I don't like the Halti brand as much as other brands; it's not fully adjustable and can be slipped too easily). Maybe I'm completely inept with the prong collar, but I was not able to make any headway using a prong. Now, I'm not about to assert that prong collars are inhumane and that everyone should ditch their prongs and run out and buy head collars :rolleyes: . I just wanted to say that I think they have their uses and can be very valuable training tools if the handler understands how to use it so that the dog is actually learning. I'm quite sure that the vast majority of posters here will probably never find themselves in a training situation where a head collar is their tool of choice. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think that head collars are sort of like clicker training, in that while clickers can be great training tools, extremists have soured their image for a lot of folks who find the evangelism to be obnoxious.

.....or perhaps I am just misguided! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

A dog aggressive dog needs to recieve meaningful corrections for unwarranted aggression. This is impossible with a hatli. So I have to again say that using a halti is misguided and to suggest that it should be used to control dog aggression is not what I would recommend to anyone. Sorry but its a fact.

Maybe some very very soft dogs can be trained with a halti - but these are dogs that only need a voice correction as a correction. Certainly dog aggression does not fall into this catagory.

Another optional use for a halti is when some dogs get nippy when they get a noral leash correction (either from a flat collar or a prong collar) Basically the the halti holds the mouth closed so it cannot nip the handler

I've found that all of these types of collars can work well in different situations, and I've used all four types on all my dogs depending on the activity. I use the Gentle Leader for leading a dog from the side, as on a bicycle. It controls the head well and will not loose it's placement on the nose. I use a halti for driving from behind. I use the prong on dogs that can kick into high gear and need an occassional firm leash correction. Dogs that are softer can go easily on a buckle collar. It's not unusual that I will use all four types of collars (at different times) on the same dog for different activities. I was out walking last night with two rotts on prongs and one terrier on a buckle collar. A small loose dog ran up from behind and right through my three dogs(all on leashes.) This was at night and I didn't see or hear him coming. Thank heavens I had prongs on my rotts, because they sure wanted to grab that little dog as he ran by. Without the prongs, it could have gotten messy! If I'm not walking multiple dogs, a choke or buckle works fine. Susan

THERE IS NO PLACE IN DOG TRAINING FOR CHOKE COLLARS. If you want to talk about neck damge - slip one up your thigh and ask someone to give a leash a hard jerk - send me the photos the next day. I will use them on my web site.

Susan - I have a dog here that I would pay big to get a video of you walking him on a flat collar when there is someone with a ball within a block. Wear a chest protector with skid plates.

I agree with you as to choke collars and hard corrections. But I haven't had a problem with a choke collar and light leash signals. Just the sound of the link on a trained dog is enough for a dog to start to back out of the collar. It can be handled the same as a bit in a horses mouth. Now I'm talking softer dogs than you are. And in circumstances where their drives aren't in high gear. The only type of collar I like if I have to give a good yank is the prong. It's quick and to the point. I've wrestled with a lot of dogs, all sizes, as to which direction we'll take, my choice or theirs. Wrestling with a strong, freaked out dog on a ketch pole will give one a taste of being jerked around. Horses will really jerk you around. But as stated previously, don't give them anything to pull against. A prong makes pulling uncomfortable, most dogs choose to pull less, making it easier to slow. At least that's what I've found. Some dogs are too game and will run through anything, uncomfortable or not. I know many on this board are far more advanced than I in dealing with high drive dogs in demanding training environments. However, what works for one may not work for another. If you step into the obedience ring (AKC) you must use a buckle or choke collar. So my dogs will learn to work with both. Susan
PS. Hey Ed,,,,how much $$$ ??? It wouldn't be the first time I went skiing without the snow!!

Alberto's posting of the 2nd mistake that trainers make regarding a prong collar can also be read in Adam Katz's book "Secrets of a Professional Dog Trainer" on page 62- word for word.

Ain't plagiarism great?