Hello, I am new here. So good evening! Anyways, to the point. I have ordered my very first prong collar yesterday for my sister's dog who I have tried my best to train, and have gotten very far with him, considering how he USED to be (Oh god, don't want it to be like that ever again). I think what makes him difficult to train is that we believe he has a little bit of chow in him, but anyways. I HAVE read the article Ed provides on how to fit the prong collar on a dog, and where to place it, ect., but when reading a link that was posted here about prong collars to help advocate then, around the very bottom of the site they write "When properly fitted, the prong collar should be at roughly the mid-way point on the dog's neck, with the chain portion flat, not sagging. Beware those who recommend fitting a prong collar (or any collar) up high, near the dog's ears - their intention is to cause pain by putting the collar in this nerve rich, muscle poor area of great sensitivity."

Basically, I am not sure whose advice to follow, because I don't want to hurt my dog. Maybe Ed suggests this position for when you use the dogs for Shutzhund only, since maybe they need firmer corrections (I am obviously not involved with Shutzhund, please forgive my ignorant little soul, Lol). The Link to the site is... http://www.flyingdogpress.com/prong.html

Thank you for your time =)

Oh yes, aren't I HORRIBLE at introductions? Lol

Melody,
We've had worse introductions, don't worry!

Sorry, the information that is posted on that site regarding placement of the prong collar is just flat out wrong. They're attempting to minimalize any discomfort that the prong will cause during the correction - but their sugary words still don't change that it's a compulsion type correction.

That site is mainly for Agility folks ( the site owner is a bigwig in Agility ) and while I think Agility is interesting, it's not an end-all be-all test for a dog's working ability or it's temperment.

I'm sure the owners of this site mean well, although they are not very knowledgable about the basic nature of dogs. I see a lot of humanizing of dogs and their motivations on the site - great, but they're still canines, and live in a canine world.
I'm impressed that she can charge $300 for an inital consultation regarding dog behavior ( or just $95 for an hour on the phone )

If you see the world "holistic" in the description of a dog training site, the odds are that you're not going to see anything in the way of useful dog training information for real world problems. And that site just reinforced that view of mine. And "relationship based training"......man, I hate when hippies become dog trainers... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I love the quote "In my best possible world, NO collars and leads would be used in training. The strongest leash of all is that invisible leash that connects one heart to another, and it's built of love & trust"
Umm...ok, that's a real world view point, for sure.
Attributing human emotions and behavior to canines does not make for good training.

As a working GSD person, I cringed when I saw that site owner talk about her GSD breedings, she felt the need to add " we do not breed dogs with excessive drive that are difficult to live with. First & foremost, these are companion animals, and no matter how brilliant, you still have to live with them"
- Translation: our dogs couldn't do real work if their lives depended on it.
I note that they that feels the need to list CGC's as a dog title to pad their list of accomplishments. Admittedly, one of their breedings earned a UD, but most have CD's or Agility titles , and a rare SchH BH thrown in. This wouldn't be a working kennel in my eyes.

They raise soft AKC type dogs and their advice will likely work for a soft type dog that doesn't require much of a correction.
That does not make them very qualified in my eyes to be giving advice on the use of a prong collar.


Only you can decide how to train or not train your dog. If your dog needs a correction, and you're unable to give it one that is of the correct intensity due to not using a prong collar, you didn't do the dog or yourself any good. Some dogs need them, and some dogs don't - seek out a good local trainer to help you evaluate the dogs needs.

Ack! That sounds painful just reading about it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

A prong collar on the dog at that very moment would have been helpful - all you would have needed to do is maintain a grip on the leash, and Jack would have self-corrected himself when he pulled away from you.
Also, the prong will allow you to give corrections via the leash, which may someday save you from Jack getting resentful about you trying to pin him and hold his scruff ( very tense situation for most dogs, with a Chow or a Chow mix, you could be setting up a dangerous behavior from the dog someday - be careful, OK? )

Has Jack gotten the big snip at the vets? That might help the situation a bit, if he's unaltered right now.
Or doggie Ritalin.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yeah he has gotten the big snip, but it is funny sometime because even being snipped, he like.. occasionally, tries to seduce me or something. Like on average once every one or two months, I will let hima nd Lacey in from the yard, and I will be greeting them and petting them, then I go to the computer (being the computer addict I am, Lol) and then Jack will come up to me so I reach my hand out to pet him, and he will grab my figers with his mouth, and like, nibble on them or something, and then he will try to hump me or the chair, ugh. He is WEIRD. Maybe since I am the only one in the family who trains, play, pretty much do everything with the dogs (except usually my mom will feed them), then maybe he sees me as the Alpha female and he is trying to be the Alpha male by getting jiggy with me, LOL. It ain't going to happen!

Also, yeah I try not to be to crazy about Jack. I am cautious but try my best to be stern with him since he doesn't listen sometimes. He seems such the opposite from a chow though, at least so far. He hides from everyone, especially men. We don't know why, but when we adopted him from his foster people, they said they found him as a puppy hanging around dumpsters. Poor baby!

Hi Melody,
The position of the collar is very important. If the collar is not fitted correctly, it will require more corrections for the dog to learn what he is doing wrong, hence more stress on the animal, because direction is not clear. The truth behind the saying 'one good correction is better than a thousand nagging ones' is not toughness of the handler, but clarity for the dog.
I found this technique to be very helpful in teaching my critter, bike, jogger, anything-moving-fast male, who had no training whatsoever when I got him, basic leash manners. First of all, take just one dog for walks until the male gets better manners. Secondly, dogs that are in drive generally require harder corrections. Adjust the level of corrections to the amount of distractions. Put on the prong correctly, high and tight, with the clasp on the back of the neck. Take the dog out on a 6' leather lead, and start to walk. Keeep a loose lead, if he consistantly ranges to the end of the line, turn arond and walk the other way. do not say anything, but praise, or treat when he is in the proper position. Make your walk erratic, so he has to pay attention to you. Let the prong collar give the correction.
When he takes off for a critter, drop the slack in the lead, and turn around the other way, keeping the end of the leash cemented by your belly. Do not look back. Keep it happy upbeat. This is a nonconfrontational way to teach where the end of the line is, and that taking 'you' for a walk is not allowed. With my male, I wound up having to jog the other way after I dropped the lead, his auto correction was very hard, but that was what was required.
As Will said though, be careful. If he has chow in him he may not be too happy about you telling him what to do. Remember, don't say anything until he is doing what you want, then praise and treat. Do this for a few minuets, then go to a low distraction area, do a few simple commands that he knows, praise the bejesus out of him to lower his stress level, then go back out. This is not teaching heel, this is basic line handling. Good Luck!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh and if he is dog aggresive, this is NOT the way to handle it. But I know you know that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Gypsy, my dog, is a chow/pit bull, and because she has so much loose skin on her neck, it's hard for me to keep her prong up where it's supposed to be when fitted correctly. It inevitably slips down just a bit, and it is not too big. Her neck is 17.5 inches around, and the prong collar measures 18 inches long when stretched out, so it can't really go smaller without digging into her. You may have this problem too, so just be prepared.

Let me also say that it is a Godsend when it comes to the dog suddenly seeing a scurrying creature. Gypsy likes rabbits and squirrels, and she does not pull against the collar anymore when she sees them. She sidesteps and hops up and down and yip, yip, yips at them, but she does not try to chase them anymore. In fact, yesterday on our walk, I had my hair pulled up in a clip, and it was falling down. I decided to stop and fix it, and because I use a traffic lead, I had to let go while I fixed my clip. A rabbit ran across about 40 feet in front of us just before I let go, and Gypsy locked on. I told her to sit. She sat. I fixed my hair, and she sat there obediently, yipping and yapping at the rabbit and looking up at me, but she didn't get up until I told her to.

Thank you all for your replies. I am not quite understanding Melissa's advice, where you turn around.. without holding the leash? Maybe I should just reread it a few times. And may I ask, what is "crittering"? Lol, I have the image of Gypsy in my mind now hopping up and down going "yip yip yip!"