Ok let's hear them.... how to give a proper correction and how to sum up your dogs level of correction....

Lonny,
Just the subject I need answers to.

Yup! Me too!

Rule of thumb: Give your dog exactly the level of correction that will cause him to execute the command. No more and no less. Of course this assumes that you are at the correction stage of training and that your dog completely understands what you expect him to do. Otherwise you are being unfair to the dog.

And naturally, this level will vary widely from dog to dog--some dogs might need a level-10 correction with a prong collar to execute a sit, where others might down for you if just raise your voice slightly. Another rule of thumb: Err on the side of less force until you know very well just how "hard" your dog is. Overcorrecting a soft dog can ruin him in a big hurry.

Pete Felknor

That's great Pete, thank you! I will give you an example of my dog and one problem I have with him sometimes.

Platz: I can command this with motivational method, food reward and he goes down in a hurry. I do it without reward and he kinda does it.... I have to actually start walking towards him like I am going to kick his ass, then he goes slowley down depending on how close I come to him, if I stop half way he stops, if I continue he will go all the way down. It's like a game to him... how much can I get away with before dad kicks my ass?

Please advise on how to begin a correction phase with this problem. He is 6 1/2 months old

Lonny--you might be kinda putting the cart before the horse.

I'll give you an example. I'm currently training a 15-mo-old female that is very hard for a bitch. I got her a month ago and she'd had no previous training. To train her "platz" I showed her the command by pulling her to the ground with exactly as much force as I needed for her to go down--and then praising her with a happy voice when she did it--"Good girl! Good platz!" Then releasing her after she stayed down for a few seconds. No food involved, although I do use food to get her to focus during heeling. IMO "platz" is a non-negotiable order and I do not want to introduce any kind of bribe into the process.

Now we are working on long platz--as much as 10 minutes--and under distraction. I have her on a prong collar and a 30-foot long line, which right now I am standing near the end of. If she breaks the platz, I put my foot on the line and she corrects herself with the prong. This has worked very, very well. Again, "platz" is not negotiable.

The BIG THING to remember, though, is not to forget to praise when you release the dog. The dog needs to feel that he/she has done well.

What kind of dog do you have? This could make a difference too.

At what age would you start correcting a pup? I have a 4 month old that I am training only with food and praise. At what point do you start to use corrections?

The three factors to determine before giving a correction are:

1-Determine if a correction is necessary.

2-Proper timing of the correction.

3-Determining the force needed for the correction.

Determining if a correction is necessary is a thread to itself. There are many different factors to consider before determining that a correction is needed. Some of them are:

1-Does the dog understand what is expected from him?

2-Is distraction the cause of the dog needing a correction and if so is the distraction level beyond the dogs level of training?

3-Will the gain that is a result of performing the correction outweigh any possible loss of attitude that might occur?

4-Can I achieve the same goal through other techniques?

Proper timing of a correction is vital in order to achieve optimal results from a correction. The closer the correction comes after the unwanted behavior or command given the better the correlation between the behavior and the consequence. I stress the word after because the best way to confuse and kill the working drive of a dog is to give a correction before giving the command.

Determining the optimal force needed in giving a correction comes down to starting at a very low level and gradually increasing until the minimal force needed to illicit a response is determined. There are many considerations that will affect this level and must be factored in to your results.

1-The age of the dog.

2-If the dog is in drive and what drive he is in.

3-His ability to use drive to bounce back from a correction.

4-Will the dog view this as a fair correction.

5-His ability to bounce back from a correction on his own.

6-If he sees you as a packed member and if so what role in the pack does he consider you.

I know I left out tons of stuffs. But this should at least fuel the fire a bit.

Vince has lots of valid points.... welcome to Learning to Read Your Dog 101.

There are so many different opinions on when and how to correct young dogs. And what exactly constitutes a correction? In many cases it is just removing the desired reward IE dog sits in wrong place = no food, heel off and try again dog sits in correct place= reward (ball, food, whatever)

Lonny, I think the fact that your dog starts to go into the down when you move toward the dog says he does understand the command, but is giving you the "doggie finger" To me that says you need to back up a step and think about what you have changed. Never give a commmand that you cannot enforce. By doing this early on you teach the dog he only has to listen when he feels like it. If that means making the dog drag a leash around the house so that you can give the command and enforce it, so be it. Platz is a command that can save your dogs life. I personally don't teach the platz with food. That doesn't make me right and you wrong, just different.

Long lines and the appropriate collar will make all the difference in the world. I can't tell you what collar that will be. Every dog is different.

I have considered Ed's recommendation of putting a prong on myself for when I screw up <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> We all do it.

Personally, I would be happy if you could put the dog in a platz and walk to the end of a six foot leash at this age. Once you can do that comfortably in the confines of your usual training area add some distractions, but I think you are trying to do too much too fast from the sound of things. Remember, you have a long time before you can eve put a BH or CD on this dog. Enjoy it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> They are only young once.

Lonny - You could try to make progress on this problem, while putting off the correction phase, by carrying treats in your pocket all the time, and suprising your dog with them when he does well. Even if you still have to step toward him at first, rewarding him when he does listen will probably have a positive effect.

In a way the fact of you not having a treat is a distraction phase to him. If he thinks you might have a treat at any time, you don't have to deal with that particular distraction phase, and you can save your energy for the bigger ones.

Part of the reason praise is a better incentive than food is that you always have it to give or withhold. Food seems like a shortcut to getting the dog's attention but IMO in the long run it is a barrier to getting the attention where you really want it - on you. If your dog is thinking "love vs. no love" he is paying closer attention than if he is thinking "treat vs. ass-kicking."