ok heres my problem my dog (anne)always 80% of the time falls her stays i've tried putting an e-collar on her but she knows when she has it on i've tried having other people correct her but with no avail does any one have a suggestion.

The problem you describe, " i've tried putting an e-collar on her but she knows when she has it on" is a condition that's known as "collar wise." It's not inherent to the Ecollar but rather is a sign of faulty training. You have a problem so you put the Ecollar on and stim the dog. Then you take it off. If you do that three times the stupidest dog will figure out that the only time he gets corrected is when the Ecollar is on. Smarter dogs pick it up quicker. This isn't something that's limited to the Ecollar but can be done with any training tool or even something as benign as a bandanna.

The best answer is to put the Ecollar on the dog and leave it on all day, even if you're not doing any training. That way the dog will become desensitized to its presence. Make sure and move it around on the dog's neck several times a day to avoid any sores that might result and take it off at bedtime

If you're competing in some sport that doesn't allow the Ecollar to be worn during competition, and judging by your name you are, see the article on my website that discusses "Weaning the Dog off the Ecollar."

Lou.... Don't they make "dummy e-collars" to address this issue? What's your opinion on these?

OK her I go and I swear I'm not nuts!
I agree totally with Lou, but here is a Fritz Bueller trick, and it does work.

Put the dog on the down stay. Put a pinch collar in your pants pocket, When the dog moves, walk CALMLY to were the dog NOW is. CALMLY let the dog see you get the collar out of your pocket,put it on him, and CALMLY give three #8 or 9 corrections. CALMLY put the dog back to the correct possition on the down stay and try again.

I know, I know, dogs dont reason like this. But it works. The dog will learn that he can be corrected evan if the collar is not on at the moment.
The moment he breaks give a calm NOOOO. go to him and do as stated. DO NOT correct at the point of the down. Only were he is when you get to him. And remain calm at all times.
Try it.
Ron

Yes, Matt they do make dummy collars for this but I've never seen the need for one. Perhaps if I had a kennel full of dogs that might be different. But just having a couple of dogs at a time I've just used the real collars. I've also come across dogs who can tell the difference between a dummy Ecollar and a real one.

There are those who desensitize the dogs before they even give the first stim. One very successful field dog trainer uses a dummy Ecollar for 3-4 months before the first stim, but I've never bothered with that. For my purposes just leaving it on after the first training session and then putting it on every day, as described, has worked fine.

Anyone following Ron's advice, and I've had it both work and fail BTW, should be careful of ". . . giv(ing) three #8 or 9 corrections." Some dogs won't tolerate that. Some will melt and some will eat your lunch.

You said in another thread that your dog has a CDX. So I assume that this is not a problem in the ring? If your dog holds a stay in the ring, but not in a "real life" situation, then you haven't generalized the behaviour. She needs to learn that wherever she is, "stay" means "stay".

I almost ruined my first competition dog by "calmly walking back and correcting". It took quite a bit to get him to stop cringing when I would return on the sits and downs. I've never had a problem since, because I take a looong time to creat distance/time between myself and the dogs now. Haven't had one break sits and downs in 25+ yrs. Still way to many other ways they can make a fool outa ya though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Emily,

You may be setting your dog up to fail. If your dog is failing to stay 80% of the time, you're probably too far away from the dog. I would start over from the beginning. Put your dog in a down, stay and only move a couple of feet away. Immediately come back to heel position and praise your dog. Then start putting your dog in longer down, stays from a short distance. (I would put Roxy in a down, stay and put a chair 3 feet in front of her and I'd sit in the chair, with my back to her for a little while.) Once your dog stays 100% of the time from that short distance, move to the end of your 6 foot lead. Repeat the process. Then start using a retractable or a longer lead and gradually work your way further out from the dog. This is the process that I used and my 10 month old female GSD will now remain in a down, stay at 100 yards, where I am out of sight for however long I tell her to.

If your dog is failing 80% of the time, I'd bet the dog isn't sure what to do, not that the dog is just disobeying. That could also explain why your heavy corrections aren't working--the dog doesn't know why it's getting a correction.