I hear repeatedly that this is a very misunderstood thing. I've read that prey is something that should be taught first.

At what age should your dog start to learn defense training? Also does it depend from dog to dog?

Brad, here is a link to an article that may shed some light on defense vs. prey training.

Ed's article on defense before prey

A good rule of thumb is around 1 1/2 years, give or take. (I would add the rule that prey work must be well established.)

Hey VanCamp, Brad, how you all doing.

First I agree 100% with Ed's article on this topic.

Brad asked the same question over on the Den so I thought I would re-post my responce to Brad on the Den, here.........................

Brad, first defence is a drive that is genetic. You can not create this drive. With this said training a dog in defence is something that a smart trainer that is working toward a dog that will defend is working from the very beginning of training when the dog is a very young pup.

It is like a house being built. The defence driven dog must first be schooled in a sound foundation of Prey Training to establish control and fundamental bite skills.

Second, one must be sure that the dog that they are training has a defence drive from the very start.

Many, sport folks think their dog has defence when in fact the dog only has prey drive and would break under real fight stress.

How soon can one see a defence drive albeit in the most basic level.

I have seen and recognised it as early as 6-7 weeks in pups that will in fact bite you and even earlier in pups demonstrating the visuals to strange and new situations.

These are not dogs (Pups)for the beginner nor the mid level trainer to fool with. They are real and must be conditioned very carefully in order to be able to manage and form the correct stability foundation.

Now saying the correct stability foundation also is a bit of a misleader in that the dog that will really defend itself and a person to win a fight is in fact a bit of a loose screw to start with and herein lies where a real trainer handler understands and directs the dogs handling in a fashion that is safe yet also mindfull of the dogs temperment (fault that achieved the Defence).

There you have my thoughts on this. Defence is calculated from the beginning but is in fact trained in the real aspect of defence after the prey work is established and complete with full complience to the handler once the dog has come of age where mental maturity has begun to surface.

Jerry

Jerry,

So your saying that defense shows somewhat at an early age through say the pup barking defensivly at the lawn mower, sitting in the yard? My pup did this just yesterday, he was barking in a serious mannor with a lot of running up to it giving the tire a quick bite then backing up, just really trying to decide what this strange thing was.... it was the first time he ever saw the mower.

It was an intresting experence, I tried to Fus him as he was barking and he did it, but contined to bark. So it looks like my training has worked ok, as I thought if he would listen under stress he understood, and he did.

Would you say this is defense showing up in a young dog? He is almost 8 months. I will add the back yard is the only place besides in the house he will act like this. I will assume this is typical behaviour because this is where he lives and the first place he will begin to protect. Yes?

Originally posted by Lonny B.:
Jerry,

So your saying that defense shows somewhat at an early age through say the pup barking defensivly at the lawn mower, sitting in the yard? My pup did this just yesterday, he was barking in a serious mannor with a lot of running up to it giving the tire a quick bite then backing up, just really trying to decide what this strange thing was.... it was the first time he ever saw the mower.

HMMM.. How old is this pup? So he ran up, bit and then backed up. LOL, I would bet adding a small tug behind the wheels and pull it about to make sure transient door to door lawn mower salesmen never invade in the future.(JOKE)

Yes, that would be a sign to keep an eye on the pup but it is really indicitive that there is no prey skills at this point as the retreat behaviour suggests.

Time for the environmental stuff Lonny.

Jerry

I love when my dogs have tried attacking the lawnmower. They were even American line GSDs. The look on my neighbor's face was hilarious. I guess some of the tougher European lines might decide to eat it, lol.

The article Ed wrote was very good, plus I think as I watch more of his tapes I'm going to learn much more about all this as time goes on. I just ordered his first one on PP Dogs. -The First Steps of Bite Training-

As I move on down the line I'm sure I'll get more and more of a perspective on all aspects.

Time for the environmental stuff Lonny.

Please expand here for me.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Lonny B.:
Time for the environmental stuff Lonny.

Please expand here for me.

OK, the expanded version........

People like Dogs, but people "Don'T" love Trained Dogs that Attack Lawnmovers <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Jerry

Ahh gotcha! Yeah I did that.. after I mowed the lawn I brought him down off the porch and showed him it was ok.... he was fine after that. Then he just wanted to chase and play with it when I put it back in the shed.

I think his reaction to the situation was fine myself... he got defensive, but not so scared he avoided it, he was curious and wanted to invistagate. But still maintaing control under his handler's commands. That's good nerve in my book. He is going to be awsome.

In regards to my dogs, I was in highschool at the time. They weren't trained. lol
It was just funny to watch them go after a lawnmower.