What are hardest hitting dogs? Some think the larger heavier dogs hit harder, others think that
speed and the fast dog hit harder.

Here is a suggestion from another Website from another season helper he suggested that, there are hard hitting dogs in every breed but

His statement - It’s not the breed but the individual dog. That said, on the average the Schnauzer is far more agile then the Rotties. They tend to come in quicker and higher. The hardest biting dog I ever caught was a Malinois from Holland, until Cliff got here. He is a GS that broke a brand new Gappay sleeve and we had to pry it off the decoys arm.

But to date, the hardest hitting dog I have ever caught, and this includes, Pit bulls, American Bulldogs, numerous GS’s and a bunch of GSN’s etc, was a KNPV washout (Malinois) from Holland that is now working with the Baytown Police dept.
The dogs name is Pecco and can be seen on the Seven Pines Kennel website under seminars. There are several videos of him planting decoys.

I'm shocked harder then a Am Bulldog, Giants or Pit bulls? I guest VanCamp was right, sorta.

There is guy where i train that was positive that Stafford terriers are hardest bitters. After being bitten by belgian/dutch 4yo mix (knpv trainig, this sommer goes for his ph1) he could not belive how blue his upper arm was after he took off bite suit jacket (fat one, not knpv standard).

On speed/size thing i'd say it is speed combined with minimum respect for decoy. That way dog comes straight into you no matter if you run/scream/hit him with stick or all those things together.

Planting green decoy is easy when dog bits on suit (I fall all the time <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) in upper arm. I still have balance problem when 45kg of muscle is hangin g of my shoulder and won't keep still which makes me move and round and round we go <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> .

And i hear that more and more dogs are being trained to come into legs, and THAT is something what proffesionals can't catch and stay on feet.

Well, this is just me, but I think "the hardest hitting dog" comparisons don't really prove anything, unless you're talking about the bull breeds and seeing if they're knocking down livestock and such.

I decoy against various breeds during muzzle attack training, but the force of the blow would not stop my escape, if I just kept getting up and continuing my motion - yeah, I'd be bruised, but unless a dog is putting it's teeth into me, I'd get away. And grip is totally seperate from "hard hitting" - so I see the measure of how hard a dog hits as a pretty meaningless measure of protection or patrol work.
I had this same type of discussion with several trainers for large metroploitan police departments and I have yet for one of them to indicate that how hard a dog hits has any bearing to it's ability to stop a felon.

I always shake my head when I see the contests regarding the hardest hitting dogs - it just shows me that there are amateur's in charge of that sport or trial. :rolleyes:

Again, all that is just my opinion - but I try and base my opinions on what works in the real world, not what looks cool for a bunch of yahoos....

After what I just posted, I wanted to clarify that I think KNPV is an excellent dog sport, ( which I hope will get a foothold back into the U.S. ) although the work does shorten the lifespan of many of the dogs due to the amount of impacts that the dog goes through - fortunately, mals at their slightly smaller size and weight as compared to a GSD, are better suited to that type of work with that type of trauma.

But contests just for the "hardest hitting dogs" - sorry, that's just stupid.

Hi Will,

there is no contest. But than again i am amateurish yahoo that is still impresed by what those dogs do (as most of you were at some point) so please excuse me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> . Don't mix me and people that train me.

Being green as i am i ask you what better way to stop someone that really really wants to get away than knock him down? When he is down there is smaller chance of him hurting the dog even more so if dog is biting him in the leg (as i see it).

Yes, i do think leg biting is realy hard on dog if decoy keeps standing.

Way I see it, it's like asking, would you rather be shot by a .357 or a 9 mm. They all hurt.

DFrost

I agree that a contest for hardest hitting dog does seem rather silly, yet I can see how some may be impressed with that sort of thing. As far as hard hitting dogs, a woman in my prior club has Stratfordshire terriers, and let me tell you they hit hard and make it look good. I think part of it is they are so much smaller then a GSD or Rott, that when you see them swinging wildly around on the sleeve it's just impressive. With that said, as impressive as I thought that was, I personally have not seen anything hit harder then a Mal, and I've seen several. I remember watching an incredible routine at the North Americans this year in Atlanta by a woman with a fantastic Mal that scored 99 in obedience and 97 in protection. Now keep in mind I am a big fan of the GSD but I found myself actually pulling for her to win. On the courage test the impact was so loud, so strong, and so fast, the entire audience let out a gasp and were in awe. I did not see one GSD that hit that hard. As far as muzzling a dog, I noticed that Ed sells a tape on Muzzle fighting which is basically teaching a dog to strike using its body. I hope it's okay to post sections of his description of the tape here because it gives a pretty darn good explanation of the important role it plays in protection training.

"Working in muzzle is one of the least understood exercises in bite work. In 1985, I produced my first Police Service dog video. In it we covered 10 minutes of muzzle work. Since then we have learned a lot about this training.

The reason we chose the term “muzzle fighting” is because there is a real difference between what we show in this video and what happens when someone just throws a muzzle on a dog and sends him after a helper without a sleeve. If a dog is genetically capable of muzzle fighting we will show you how to train it to use its body to go out and knock the snot out of someone.

The goal is to train a dog in muzzle to alert on a passive suspect located some distance from the handler. If that suspect tries to fight or flee, the dog is to physically fight the man by punching him center mass with his body. Training a dog to indicate on a suspect that is running away from him, or stimulating him, or agitating him is easy. Training a dog to indicate on a standing still man or a man laying quietly on the ground is another matter all together.

Good muzzle training adds "fight drive" to a dog. It teaches the dog to work center mass on a helpers body and not focus on sleeves and other equipment. Sport dog trainers can learn a lot about improving their dogs through this aspect of police work. Teaching a sport dog to do bark and hold in muzzle really produces flashy Schutzhund dogs.

Training a service dog in the muzzle, hidden sleeve, and body bite suits is a must to produce a dog that is ready to work the street. The video shows you how to train the muzzle portion of this equation."

My only point in posting that was to acknowledge that IMO training a dog to hit hard does not seem meaningless. In fact, the description of this tape suggests it is an important component to protection training itself that a lot of people overlook. So maybe "stopping" a person is not the issue so much as "slowing" them down. I will admit that I have not actually seen this particular tape, but I plan on ordering it, and I'm sure I will be impressed as I have been with the other tapes I have purchased from this site. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Will,

This was taken off Giant website were size and speed means something to them. These people do some pro level protection training and Sch-III level competition. But this topic did come up so this being a amaturist topic is debatable.

Most people that like big dogs, believe that bigger stronger dogs are better. People that like smaller faster think this makes dogs hit harder.

I agree that it only means something if you are knocking down or detaining live stock. And strength does mean something here, a mal couldn't hold a wild boar by the ear. But they could kill it. Which is a completely different subject.

The hardest hitter I've ever taken a bite from was a cross between a GSD and a MAL. This was a 10 yr old dog with 3 missing teeth <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Although I think it's dumb to argue over who's dog hits harder, since it's just a prey response. To me, what a dog does when it's not a game is what counts.

PIROL

At the 97 Nationals.