Hey Troops,

This came up on another board I post to. Whether to post signs indicating that you have an aggressive dog. . .or not posting signs.

Up to now I've believed that posting a BEWARE OF DOG sign or something similar is a bad idea, but after talking with my lawyer and taking a look at our local laws and ordinances this is what we came up with. It's interesting at the very least. Keep in mind this is for my situation, in my state, and in my county.

(copied from the discussion board at http://www.gsdworld.net from a post by myself in response to whether or not one should post signage indicating aggressive dogs on premises)


"This is what we've come up with, which was actually new to me.

If you engage in any type of bite training with your dog it is PROBABLY better for you to post KEEP OUT signage at the very least, as well as a notice that CLEARLY indicates the potential for injury from a dog on your premises. In owning and training a dog who will bite you have an added responsibility to protect the public. If you train for Schutzhund, and your dog eats some kid that climbs over your normal backyard wood fence to get a lost football, your liability will be MUCH greater than the liability of a dog owner who does not bite train the dog and who can show that he had no indication the dog would be aggressive. You knew you had a potentially dangerous dog and you didn't take reasonable measures to protect the public. A normal wood fence doesn't cut it. You might seriously be looking at criminal charges above and beyond the civil problems.

You had better make it very difficult for anyone to enter the area if you have a bite trained dog. There can be no accidental access to the dog. There must be a reasonable level of protection for the public. Most cities do have laws in the books for keeping "Guard Dogs" on business grounds or private property that may include the use of signs to protect people, and you had better follow those rules or you're screwed in court just about anyway you look at it.

If a neighbor walks into your yard through a normal unlocked gate. . .and becomes doglunch while returning a cup of sugar. . .you're screwed. You should have known better, it won't be your neighbor's fault even if he entered your yard uninvited.

A guy cuts the lock on your gate, deactivates your alarm system in the dead of night after climbing over a barbed wire fence marked with clear signs stating the danger of Guard Dogs. . .and is promptly cut to ribbons by your GSD-Mal X. No reasonable person would go to those lengths to return a cup of sugar at 3:00 am, so it will be pretty easy to show that he was up to no good. . .and the reasonable protections you put in place should fullfill your requirements for providing reasonable protections to the public from your aggressive trained protection dog. Thus making negligence or wrong doing on your part difficult to argue. Without the sign you might not be fullfilling the requirement in the eyes of some people. . .like jurors. Even though you are admitting knowledge of owning an aggressive dog you took the necessary and reasonable precautions to protect the average person from an accidental bite.


So if you choose to do bite training you have a responsibility to the public to go above and beyond the normal actions of the average pet owner to protect them from your aggressive dog. Even if that means doing so on your own property. So in this case it might be better for you to post signs clearly indicating the risks of trespassing, even though it will show an admission that you are aware your dog can hurt someone. That's really all we're talking about when deciding whether to post signs or not. Admitting you know the dog can eat people puts the responsibility on yourself to take the proper steps to ensure that innocent people are protected from the animal. I think that's only fair. This is what I've decided to do for myself. This is new for me, in the past I've been of the opinion that I shouldn't post anything other than NO TRESPASSING signs. I have significant barriers in place that seperate the general public from my protection dogs. No reasonable person, and no child without reason, can enter my property by accident or without going to extreme lengths to do so. So for the idiot who chooses to tread anyway it should be difficult for them to put the blame on me for being bit.

If you don't do any bite training, it may be better NOT to post a sign that indicates that you have knowledge that your dog could injure someone. (unless there is a ton of evidence that you DO have knowledge that your dog could injure someone) You're not admitting it and thus are not taking on the added responsibility, so it will be up to someone to try to prove negligence or wrong doing on your part. As long as you have taken the "normal" reasonable precautions of confining a normal pet in your yard or in the home you should be fine.


Does that make sense? Yes, you are admitting knowledge of aggression, but with a bite trained dog you are already doing that in most people's eyes anyway. . . and they'll be the ones kicking the chair out from under you when the noose is around your neck in trial if you've screwed up."


So. . .for us folks with bite trained dogs. . .it might be better to post the BEWARE OF DOG sign. If a reasonable person expects the sign to be there as a part of a reasonable protection for the public you can't exactly take on additional liability by doing so. You've already taken on the same liability by doing bite training. If your dog bites someone you can be pretty damn sure that the jerk's lawyer will find out about that little SchH III title he has. LOL


Food for thought. . . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for posting this - this is something that REALLY worries me, in large part due to a recent local court case, and I don't even have a bite-trained dog, just a naturally protective one.

In brief, here's the scenerio:

Rottweiler kept in owner's yard, surrounded by wooden stockade privacy fence. A child (I believe four, might have been three), climbs OVER the fence and into the yard, and gets bitten. Parents sue. Owner has to remove the dog (it's now living with her parents), and dog must be kept in a chain-link kennel with a roof, and be muzzled whenever out.

I was furious over this outcome, though it was better than euthanizing the dog, which was what I thought was going to happen. In no way am I trivializing the hurt that was done to the child - I have two daughters, and hurt for them when they stub a toe, let alone something like this. However, I don't sue the chair that was in their way.

Who was supposed to be watching this child when it's climbing over a 7 foot, stockade type fence? Why did it then become the owner's fault, when she had made it obviously difficult to enter the yard? I don't know if it was posted or not, and am disregarding that anyway, as the child can't read yet. BTW, the dog was NOT bite trained, nor had it shown any sort of aggression previously. It was said in one report that the kid actually landed ON the dog when he got over the fence, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

Many of us have dogs for the same reason we have hardware like the Glock in my home - another layer of protection for our families. Yes, I love the companionship that Ceili provides, and I love working with her, but I also love the fact that she's going to let me know if someone's doing something they shouldn't. Last time I checked, none of those things were a crime.

At what point am I NOT responsible for the actions of another person?? I have a privacy fence, well-maintained, that is secured by a keyed lock - no way to open it without that key. You'd have to remove wood. Legally - is that enough, or do I need motion-activated lights, warning voices, and a written neon notice that says "If you're gonna be dumb, you'd better be tough"?? What if someone comes into my home uninvited, gets the big knife from the kitchen, and cuts their finger off - am I now liable because I OWNED a knife capable of doing that?

So - I'm not sure there's ANY way to truly protect ourselves from this sort of idiotic judicial nonsense...and unfortunately my opinions aren't setting any precidents.

Keep yourself informed, I guess, is all you can do - keep up with what's going on locally, and be vocal as heck when legislators try to make you responsible for someone else's stupidity.

Never leave 1 or 2 dogs alone in the yard. always keep 6+ dogs, & keep them hungry. this way if some idiot climbs your 8ft fence, shimmies through the barbed wire, rappells down the other side & gets eaten by the dogs they will be able to completly devower him. No body no crime. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

May I also suggest the follow book, availble from Amazon.com:


Be Your Own Undertaker : How To Dispose Of A Dead Body
by A.R. Bowman


Just kidding....kinda. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I have this book, and it's got some useful material in it. However, it's kinda outdated now with the increased use of forensic evidence gathering.
Basically, the book was written to poke fun at the criminal justice system.

I read somewhere that for a non bite trained dog to put up a sign that says 'Family dog or (pet) on premise or (property)' As a 'beware of dog' sign implies that you know you dog is dangerous.

I have had one insurance agent tell me I had to put a beware of dog sign on every window and door of my house and on every corner of my six foot wood fence,he wasn't happy with the fact that I had a dog.My current insurance guy was thrilled I had dogs,said it was a good deterrant and could have cared less about signage.

A lot of states and principalities are inacting vicious dog laws and or flat out breed bans . Rotts,apbts,dobbies and yes even the gsd and a dozen others get put into a vicious dog catagory if you have one of the breeds that are in that catagory and it bites some one , after review it then can be labeled a vicious dog at such point the owner has to keep the dog muzzled at all times it is out ,kepted in a totally enclosed kennel and get a $100,000 insurance rider or the state can put the dog down!.I believe that is how it works in my state. Would clearly posted signage prevent this if some idiot came onto your property anyways,I would think it would depend on the severity of the injuries and the judge jmo.

Those of you that travel over to Germany where 'dog sport'is so much more popular.Do any of you know what their beware of dog sign laws are ,if any!

They want our bullets and our dogs,what's left after that !

There is some confusion where I live about dog bite liability. I have a couple of signs out that say "I (heart) german shepherds" and leave their muzzles on the dash board. I hope most ppl can come to a reasonable conclusion of potential risk.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Amber, that scenario doesn't actually sound that bad. I don't agree with the muzzle BS though.

The dog owner wasn't sued for lots of money and there were no criminal charges. That's a win.

Then the court made the decisions as to what would be reasonable protections from the public for the person. . .which suck. . .but are what they believe are the correct steps to take now that they know the dog has aggressive tendencies.

If the dog owner had done that for himself before the incident there wouldn't have been a problem.

A couple cheap electric cowwires along the top of a normal fence does a lot to keep kids off of the -f-er. LOL

I'm considering moving back into suburban hell for work reasons, and I know that I'll have to do something above and beyond the normal backyard fence to keep people out.

If they'll let you, covenant agreements, county ordnences, Alpha Hotel nieghbors, I'm moving to the sticks first chance I get.

Robert, I do agree wholeheartedly that the scenerio could have been much, much worse. I did a little more reading and the child DID land on the dog when coming over the fence, so it really appears that the animal was startled into a self-defensive act, and I do have a hard time penalizing the owner for it. I'm not sure that the reaction shows aggressive tendencies, but it's strongly within the realm of possibility that I'm wrong. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I still have to wonder what else COULD have been done that would have kept this from happening, and coming up with not much (hindsight not withstanding). Having to prepare for a four year old scaling your stockade fence while supposedly under the supervision of its grandmother and then falling on your dog, startling it into defending itself - that particular scene never would have entered my head, either.

Maybe it should. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />