We all know my remaining dog Knuckles is fear aggressive.

In reading over some of the threads, there is some debate regarding training this type of dog.

Knuckles is not aggressive toward dogs, nor most people. He is extremely fearful/aggressive of postal workers and people who deliver the paper.

How am I training him.????

Please see the topic heading

French RingSport Decoy Training Camp/Seminar

The instructer for this year is the trainer I am using for Knuckles.

He did the evaluation, he has come to the house 3 times to observe. We take our obedience classes at his facilities.

I train, how he tells me to train.

Linda, it seems like you are in capable hands and so your trainer should be your best venue to deal with your probelms. Good luck.

I don't know this instructor, so this info tells me nothing about how you're working with Knuckles. From the other thread, I did get the impression that you are punishing Knuckles when he acts aggressively, which has me very concerned. My concern is that this will only teach Knuckles to suppress his warning signals without changing his emotional reaction to the postal worker (his emotional reaction is the cause of the aggressive behavior). Eliminating warning signs can be very dangerous, as it can create a dog that bites "without warning". Also, if Knuckles is always punished when he sees the postal worker, then he will associate the punishment with the postal worker, making him even more fearful/resentful toward the postal worker. Those would be my two concerns regarding what you are doing.

I always advocate that people with problems like this work closely with a trainer who is qualified to work with aggressive dogs. But aggression, even among professional trainers, is a widely misunderstood aspect of canine behavior, which is why you get so much conflicting information on how to deal with it. The old school line of thinking is to use corrections for the aggressive behavior, but more and more trainers are using the Classical conditioning approach these days. Some resist it because they think of it as "cookie training", but it does have a solid foundation in scientific principles, and it does work.

I don't know all of the terms, but in addition to correcting, I redirect him.
For example the postal worker comes, paperboy, anyone comes onto the property (including friends and family), if he starts to growl, snarl, etc. I pop his collar with a sharp No accompanied by a down command. If he does not acknowledge the down command, it is NO down.

This is done either with the prong or the ecollar

Once in the down position, if he growls or snarls or is acting aggressively, he is just given a sharp no, and a pop or stim from ecollar

This is followed for any aggressive barking, growling or snarling when someone comes on the property. Not just postal workers and paper boys.

Unless I am way off base (which I could be) what
I am teaching/telling him is that aggressive barking, growling, snarling, any aggressive behavior is not allowed.

When he shows the correct behavior, he is praised and praised and praised.

I don't believe he associates the correction with the person, I believe he associates the correction with his behavior. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see him suppressing his warning signals, what I see him doing is showing appropriate behavior.

Postal workers and delivery personel. We forget how this can happen sometimes.

You have a dog who is lacking in confidence...he looks out the window sees someone coming...bark bark bark bark...the person keeps coming...bark bark bark...the person leaves...YEAH I chased the bad person away. This continues everyday...the dog keeps winning. This is how I am supposed to act. Then one day, the delivery person is actually afraid of the dog...bark bark bark..so they give the dog a treat to show what a good friend they are...the dog is barking incessantly acting agressively and is rewarding at the exact instance of the behavior. This continues to build until the dog becomes a 'fear biter'

I don't see any redirection in this program - this is all punishment. And I agree with Lisa that it doesn't accomplish the real goal - change the EMOTION associated with the aggression. Change the emotion, and the overt behavior will change accordingly. With this program, you have a dog who is fearful of the situation AND now fearful of the punishment looming over his head if he gives in to his fear of the man by expressing it. Outwardly, this may appear to give superficial results, but it's only masking the problem, IMO.

BTW, the above scenario happens most often when the dog has free run of the house. Even when people are home, if the dog can't be supervised it needs to be contained especailly a nervy dog.

Linda, keep in mind that the aggressive behavior; barking, growling, snarling, etc., is a warning. This dog is saying "You are a threat! Don't come any closer!". The behavior is caused by an emotional state; that of feeling threatened. By punishing the warning signals, you are not changing the dog's emotional state. Also, the dog is in a very aroused state at this point, and any input simply increases his level of arousal; even if he learns not to show it outwardly, on the inside, he is like a tightly coiled spring. This is a very dangerous situation, IMHO.

I also agree with Todd. Aggression toward delivery people is extremely common, because the person approaches, dog barks, person leaves, so dog thinks his barking scared the intruder away. When properly managed, it does not have to become a problem.

Come to think of it, I'm not convinced this *is* fear aggresssion. Sounds like territorial behavior outta control. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />