Hello All:

My six month old GSD pup (female, 70lbs) is reluctant to bite the puppy sleeve. I have been bite imprinting for three months now, starting with a towel, then flirt pole with canvas training dummy and then the bite tube. She works the bite tube very well, but now I'm trying to get her to move up to the puppy sleeve and she just isn't very interested. She has good prey drive, so I don't think that is the problem.

Do you think that she is just not mature enough to work the sleeve? I'm thinking I'll just keep working her on the bite tube and she'll work the sleeve when she's ready, but I'm also concerned that she'll get "stuck" on the tube and refuse to advance.

Are there any tricks to getting her more interested in working with the sleeve?

Thanks.

Fred

The trick is to get him to see the sleeve as his new prey item. Do this the same way you introduced the tug to him. Tie a rope around the sleeve and swing it around. Then after he bites slip it on to your arm. It wont take long for him to catch on.

I had pretty much done that, swinging it around in front of her to get her interest up. She'll go for it that way, but is reluctant to go for it on my arm (although she has no problem play biting me when we wrestle <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll keep doing that, and inject myself with a good dose of patience (which seems to be the key to dog training).

Thanks for your response.

Fred

I am not a protection training expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I was intrigued by this thread.

I'm wondering, if there is something in your body language when you're wearing the sleeve that she is keying into, that makes her uncomfortable about biting it? How do you stand when you're enticing her to bite the sleeve?

I'm also wondering if maybe you should stop wrestling with her, and direct that energy into the sleevework instead?

I may be way off base here, I just had a thought when I read your posts. There are others here who actually know what they're talking about, and I'd be curious to know if they agree with my thoughts, or if I should just butt right back out of this particular topic! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Frederick, if I understand correctly, you are doing bitework on your own dog. Why?

First of all, thanks for all your replies.

The wrestling I do with her is nothing rough, mainly just playing around (when she wakes me in the morning <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> .

I do my own bite work because I have no helper (at least at this point).

We are just working in prey drive right now, imprinting her with the proper way to bite.

I stand sideways to her, which is a prey stance, not defensive (at least according to Ed's tapes). I just think she doesn't look at the sleeve as a prey item. She LOVES to work on the tube. I'll keep working her with the tube and when she's really into prey drive, swing the sleeve out of reach to build her desire.

I'm in no real hurry, she's just over six months and I won't start defense drive work for several more months.

Once again, thanks - and pray for those who were victims in today's terrorist attacks.

When he is biting the sleeve on a rope walk your way up the rope and slip the sleeve on. If he comes off the sleeve before then start swinging it again and use fustration to build drive. Be patient.

PS. Walk your way up on an angle.

Frederick,

I was going to further address your questions, but this week's events prevented me from doing so right away. I do, however, want to return to this thread, as some of the things you mentioned are not quite clear to me. You said that you won't start defense drive work for several more months. Since you don't have a helper, do you intend to do it yourself? I understand you are using Ed's tapes to start your pup in prey--I haven't seen these tapes, but I would be very surprised if Ed suggested to do defense work on your own dog. But I may have misunderstood what you were saying, and you are not planning to do it yourself. In any case, what kind of defense work do you intend to do on a pup less than a year old?

I also would like to offer my humble opinion as to why your dog has no problems going for the sleeve when you swing it around in front of her, but would not bite it on your arm. When you put the sleeve on your arm, it becomes an extension of you in the dog's mind, and the dog is actually biting not so much a prey item, as you. Now, most solid nerved moderate prey drive dogs have a natural reluctance to bite a human, which needs to be overcome. In your case, you expect your pup to bite not just any human, but the handler himself--a double whammy. There are some prey monsters out there who would bite anything, but they are more of an exception than the rule. Your dog obviously doesn't have that much of a prey drive, which is fine, nothing wrong with that.

Sometimes, in order to overcome this reluctance-to-bite the man, elementary defense needs to be introduced. Most dogs with decent nerves WILL bite in defense. How much defense depends on a dog's threshold--for some a menacing look is enough, some would have to be actually "hurt" (not that I advocate this). Once a young dog realizes that it's OK to bite and win (it may take only one or two sessions) the work should be switched back to prey. HOWEVER, it takes an experienced helper to know how much defense should the dog be exposed to without causing avoidance, and how and when to switch to prey once the bite is given. It's a very delicate balance. In other words-folks, don't try it at home <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> .

One more suggestion for your bite training: if your dog has a difficulty transitioning from a sleeve on a rope to a sleeve on the arm, try to use the sleeve as a tug, i.e. hold it in both hands, as you would hold a tug, throw it around a bit and let the dog bite it when it's close to the ground, then as training progresses, slowly raise the sleeve to the point when it's at a level where it would normally be when it's on your arm, and then slip your arm in. Maybe that will help.

Renee:

I have almost every tape from Ed and he clearly states that working defense on your own dog will ruin your bond with your dog

Vince,

I would not have expected anything less from Ed! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />