Avoidance or a mistake?
#64046 - 10/16/2003 12:15 AM |
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I do not have my training video to refer to because one of my helpers has it to review, so I will have to throw this question to the board...
Upon release of the dog, to chase down the helper when fleeing, the dog on 3 of 6 occasions overshot the presentation of the sleeve. All three times the helper was running away from the dog. In contrast, when the helper approached and ran on an angle, the dog did fine.
Was the dog showing avoidance, making a mistake, over ambitious, etc.?
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Re: Avoidance or a mistake?
[Re: Drew Corry ]
#64047 - 10/16/2003 11:44 AM |
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IMO... avoidance.
the main question is.. after the dog missed once.. why did you continue to allow him "off-leash" bites?
anytime a problem like that occurs, you have to back up immediately and fix the issues.. not let them get worse
-Matt |
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Re: Avoidance or a mistake?
[Re: Drew Corry ]
#64048 - 10/16/2003 01:35 PM |
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Is it as much avoidance considering although the dog overshot the sleeve, she immediately turned back and got the bite?
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Re: Avoidance or a mistake?
[Re: Drew Corry ]
#64049 - 10/16/2003 02:56 PM |
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Originally posted by Drew Corry:
the dog on 3 of 6 occasions overshot the presentation of the sleeve. All three times the helper was running away from the dog. In contrast, when the helper approached and ran on an angle, the dog did fine. Drew,
It's nearly impossible to evaluate the problem without seeing the real picture. Based on the above, to me it doesn't scream "avoidance", since the dog bit 3 times out of 6 and has no problems with the helper running at an angle. Could it be bad sleeve presentation?
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Re: Avoidance or a mistake?
[Re: Drew Corry ]
#64050 - 10/16/2003 03:01 PM |
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I was thinking the same thing Renee. How old is this dog? Another thing to consider, the dog could just not know how to target. From what you posted it sounds likley. In that case back-up and slow the dog up with a long line. Nothing to exotic.
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Re: Avoidance or a mistake?
[Re: Drew Corry ]
#64051 - 10/16/2003 03:12 PM |
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I was only answering based on the OP.
I do agree with Renee's post.
Drew,
How were the bites, when he did make contact? were they centered and deep? or shallow and on the hand or elbow?
-Matt |
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Re: Avoidance or a mistake?
[Re: Drew Corry ]
#64052 - 10/16/2003 04:47 PM |
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I am thinking it was perhaps bad sleeve presentation. I was working with a green helper. The bites were from what I could see decent, but not the best I have ever seen her do. The bites on the angle were deeper, I was able to tell that. The bites after the over shoot were not so deep, yet they were centered.
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Re: Avoidance or a mistake?
[Re: Drew Corry ]
#64053 - 10/16/2003 04:53 PM |
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The dog is 21 months old, and it may also be she does not know how to target. I am not even sure I would know how to teach her to target....I am getting better at the handling and training, but I certainly have tons to learn. When we did the last bite I had the helper add some physical agitation with the stick, as opposed to just verbal and visual. That bite was the hardest and deepest by far. Obviously that added pressure enhanced the bite. That was one of the ones when the helper ran on the angle. He approached in a Z pattern from 30 yards back, made eye contact, puffed himself up big, presented the stick waving it back and forth, added some growling, etc. came in agitated with the stick, ran back 30 feet or so, then bolted on the 45. This bite was the best.
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Re: Avoidance or a mistake?
[Re: Drew Corry ]
#64054 - 10/16/2003 07:26 PM |
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Drew,
You say you aren't sure your dog knows how to target, have you ever worked your dog yourself? you can teach all the biting, targeting and mechanics of bitework and it will be much less stressful on your dog than relying on a a helper (especially a green one)
I HIGHLY recommend Building Drive Focus and Grip with Bernhard Flinks and Preparing Your Dog for the Helper with Bernhard Flinks
I raised my current young male using the methods outlined in the videos and when he met a helper for the first time...BAM...full hard grips on a trial arm. I did all the foundation on targeting, countering, biting and carrying myself. Also, when I am training a young or inexperienced dog I only work on helpers that have experience with working young inexperienced dogs..No bitework is better than a bad experience for a young dog. JMO, of course! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Avoidance or a mistake?
[Re: Drew Corry ]
#64055 - 10/16/2003 09:51 PM |
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Renee is right we cant tell with out more inbfo.
HOW did the dog miss? Never touch? Bounce off? Runn by? Ive seen dogs that run all out at the sleeve only to close its eyes at the last moment. Avoidance!
If you can , take the dog to some one that knows what there doing , if you want a good evaluation.
Ron
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