We have four dogs - a Beagle (approx 7 years old) a Greyhound (approx 6 years old) a mix mutt (65 lbs, 3.5 years old) and a 5 months old GSD pup.

We are fortunate to have a large turnout area - between 5 and 6 acres with a 6' chain link fence, tension wire on the bottom. We also have the "little yard" for short turnouts (about 1/4 acre is my guess) and a teeny turnout area graveled for muddy days.

For those of you who have ever had a Beagle named Houdini, I'm sure you can appreciate the challenges with containment. I swear that dog is actually The Blob and can squish himself through the smallest dip under the fence. We took a strange training tactic with the Beagle about 2 years ago. We would only let him loose unsupervised in the big yard with a "cone" on (the ones they vet gives you to prevent licking injuries, etc.) that was cut way back, but prevented him from going under. It didn't seem to slow him down or make him uncomfortable, so we kept that up for about a year. He seemed to forget about trolling the fence line, so we gradually started putting him out without the cone. That worked for about a year, but we now know he did not forget his Houdini capabilities.

He got out, and somehow the Greyhound did too on Saturday. Stil can't believe the Greyhound got out too. We have walked this fence line a hundred times by now and there ARE not large breaches that we have been able to find. I can't believe the Greyhound did the necessary belly crawl he would have had to do to get out any VERY small low spots. Saturday was one of the worst days I can remember just being worried sick about both of them. Thankfully, they are both home safe and sound.

But...we realize we need to do more to secure our yard and make sure all of our dogs can safely enjoy the wonderful space they have.

We are considering an electronic fence along the same line as our physical fence. I have always been gun shy about electronic devices, but did have a very positive experience with our trainer last summer when we used a "shock collar" to train our mutt to come when called, 100% of the time from the big yard. So in my mind, I'm not as worried about electronic devices as I used to be, with proper training and use.

I'm interested in the input from all of you here who are more experienced than I am. I think the Beagle will need something like this to be 100% safe from his own instincts. I think the mutt would be fine - already had a positive experience with electronic training on her. I suspect our GSD pup is too young at 5 months for this type of correction training. I'm not sure about the Greyhound. Greyhound "people" do not recommend electronic training. I suspect part of this is related to the fact that this type of training can so easily be over done, rushed, etc. And Greyhounds have about zero fat or hair on their necks, so I can see how a bad experience could easily happen with them. They are gorgeous to watch when they are doing what God built them to do - run in the natural environment and pick off squirrels like it's a giant buffet. They are also wonderful house pets in my experience. But clearly not as long on brains as GSD's, mutts, or beagles.

Sorry to be so long winded, but I wanted to provide enough background on the environment, the problem, and the pack to get the best advice possible. I am also interested in ideas on other options if you have any. 5 - 6 acres is a lot of fence line to manage. It is down right depressing when we believe we are doing things responsibly, and two dogs escape anyway. There must be a way to further secure this, and I thank you all in advance for additional ideas, and/or input on an electronic fense "fortification" project.

I just thank God both of our dogs are safely home.

Thanks..

Beth

An electric wire, just a few inches off the ground will probably solve the problem. It usually only takes once. It's relatively inexpensive for that small an area.

DFrost

David, thank you for responding, and that's a mighty interesting suggestion that you raise. I'm only 1 generation away from farming roots on both sides of my family, and that's actually something my husband and I talked about when we bought this property. My grandparents on both sides used hot wires to contain all manner of livestock.

Here are the concerns I have about that approach. I'm not ruling it out, so please indulge me.

1) Technically, that would be illegal where I live. I'm not "city" but hot wires like I believe you describe are outside the rules for our property in our county. Not that that would stop me if it turns out to be the best solution, but certainly a consideration.

2) A hot wire would affect all dogs equally - no difference in training or intensity based on the dog. Of particular concern is our young GSD. Don't get me wrong - my first priority is to keep all of them safe. Any other ambitions or training efforts are second to that. But at five months old, she would be sure to get shocked just by a "one time" event, and I'm concerned that could really be bad for her.

I will explain concern # 2 further. The first three dogs (beagle, greyhound & mutt) are ALL rescues. We will love them and keep them until the day they die, and they deserve that as wonderful pets. Our GSD pup is in the early phases of "puppy" Schutzhund - doing the "Thing on a String" and very small hurdles and things like that. My FIRST priority is to keep ALL of these dogs safe. But Kimba hasn't experienced any serious "correction" based training yet at 5 months. If the other 3 become terrified of 6' fences, that's OK so long as they are safe. But Kimba will eventually be asked to climb large walls and other things, and be in different environmnents/situations than the other 3 are being asked to deal with.

I think I will make a couple calls to find out what the cost difference is between a "hot wire" v. an e-fence. Believe me, it's not all about money either. But David, your suggestion is valid and will help my husband and I weigh the pros and cons of our alternatives, and what you proposed is certainly an alternative.

Once again, thanks for enduring my narrative as I try to provide enough detail so you can all help. We consider this to be a very important decision.

Thanks,
Beth

You can get special dog size hot wire units. I don't think they use as much voltage as the livestock ones. I'm sure you have touched a hot wire at some point. They don't hurt. Unpleasant, yup, but it doesn't hurt. I don't think it would do anything to the puppy unless you used a really high voltage. I've touched horse ones without any pain (just unpleasant), and I am a little smaller than a horse <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> .

You can also buy high visibility hot tape to serve as a visual reminder to the dogs.

Hi Laren and thank you for your response. I've never heard of the lower voltage hot wire setup that you describe. Do you know of a web site that offers this type of device / setup? If you do, that would be very helpful.

Thanks,
Beth

http://www.polytron-corp.com/products_fencechargers.html#MINIHALT

The mini halt is only 0.1 joule. I just found them by searching for "pet fence charger"

Here's another:
http://www.kvvet.com/KVVet/productr.asp?...99732920ED5D298

The big downside of electric fences is that they need pretty regular maintenance.

In most parts of the US, you will need to mow or otherwise clear the weeds from the fence about once a week. Even the "Weed-Choppers" will ground out on weeds after a rain or really heavy dew. After an extensive dry spell, the fence may also be a fire-hazard if it sparks against dry vegetation.

In the winter, a dog-height fence may well get buried in the snow.

How do I know this? Dad used hot wires to keep the hogs away from the regular fences. When it rained, the fence would always short out someplace. Somehow, the hogs just knew it. Some of us would take after the pigs, the others would start chopping away at the weeds. The Shepherd we had then had great fun chasing (herding?) the pigs.

The in-ground fence would be a bit better choice for your dogs. Especially since it's backed up by a regular fence.

Since you already have an existing fence, and in-ground fence sounds like the best option. You don't have to bury it, you can attach it to the fence on the top and it will still work. People who have fence-charging dogs often do this because it keeps the dog back away from the actual fence.

This is really ideal because no dogs can come into your area because of the physical fence, and then your dogs would not be able to approach and find holes in the actual fence.

Laren, thank you for providing those links.

Charlie, I'm laughing at the story of the dogs somehow "knowing" when your fence shorted out. It's funny how that works sometimes. I think the Beagle in particular would always "know" that too. Keeping a hot wire clear of weeds and things would be challenging due to the nature of the environment, so it sounds like that would not be a good idea.

Deanna, thanks for the suggestion that we could put the e-fence on the existing fence rather than bury the wire!!! I hadn't thought of that, and it sounds like the installation will be much easier than having to dig a mile long trench.

Any opinions about what age / stage a puppy can safely be trained with a collar? (I also plan to read up on the e-collar section on this board)

Thanks,
Beth

I'm a country boy, I guess checking fences is just second nature. The high visibility tape is an excellant suggestion. By and by, anything that works is better than the dog becoming a road pizza. How's that go:, don't know nuthin bout no city livin'

DFrost