Dear Everyone,

My wife and I are having the dreaded "neuter" discussion also.

Juen-Sak (our GSD) is 9 months old now. He is the sweetest GSD with zero aggression. He's also a very good worker (loves pulling me on skates for miles, ball-drive like the sphere is going out of style). Once he played ball with some kids bally for 3 hours (and boring bally too cuz the kids didn't throw hard).

What we're afraid of is how the snip-snip will change his personality and drive. We're starting agility soon (mostly for fun) and I don't want him to lose focus and drive.

Should I wait? Should I not? What are the factors governing this kind of decision.

Any advice guys?
David Chau

I've had the same discussion (a couple of times). My girlfriend works at a vet clinic and they preach the "neuter at 6 months" code, unless you're going to breed. On the other hand, my brother is a vet and he's only clipped one of his dogs (funny story) and claims there's no need. I've also heard a study mentioned that claims neutered dogs are actually more susceptible to some cancers (anyone else? maybe even on this board?).

I think it comes down to what you want out of your dog (how you want him to act) and what you're going to use him for. And there's a lot of people here who can speak to the pros and cons better than I can.

My dog isn't a super high-drive working dog (like most on this board), and he's not going to be bred, but I still don't want to at least until he's two years old and fully mature. I'm also willing to accept the added precautions and responsibility that come with that (if he reacts the way he does to aged scent on the ground, imagine if a little hottie in heat trotted by on the other side of the fence...).

Some also say it doesn't impact drive and how they mature physically. I might be wrong but simple logic tells me that if you clip a human boy when he's 12-13 yrs old, come back when he's 18-20 and let's see how masculine of man he's become. Can dogs be that different?

Just my amateur opinion.

I was told by my own vet not to bother neutering my GSD when I got him at 6 yrs old, she had said that since he made it past 2/3 yrs it would not affect his personality in any way shape or form though did seriously question it.I mean why would the debate about choppin the boys off reg. sex offenders even come up in people if it didnt change drive in some way in someone already mature? (sorry to the guys that are cringing its the only analogy I could come up with)

anyway...my poor boy did have to undergo prostate exams every yr and was told if it ever became enlarged that he should be neutered at that time...so think of the alternative <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
and for the record this was a female vet so she wasnt squemish about the ole' snip snip
we did decide that our lab who's 18 mths is gonna get the brick treatment but we waited to see if hes breeding material..he isnt.


so many ball removal euphemisms (sp?)..such a small post *rapture*

If you really like the way he is now, then neuter him. If you want him to possibly change then wait.

Neutering doesn't change them, just reduces any changes that might happen after that point. Vets push early neutering because most pet owners don't want and can't handle an intact adult. Most of the unneutered ones end up at the shelter once they start humping the couch and running off. I think that vets are right to encourage it, but I also think that educated, responsible owners that can control their dog's reproductive capabilities and personality changes should be given the option to wait.

Thanks for the replies guys -

Hmm .. still very conflicted about this. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

So .. if i neuter him, that will stop his personality from changing?

What are the dangers of keeping him intact? Aside from the unwanted litters issue; are there any inherent health issues?

I'm not as worried about breeding (don't want to/don't know how to). But I'm not scared that he'll make unwanted litters either. I wanted to be responsible and not make more unplanned litters in the world. We have an invisible fence; and a physical fence just beyond it. He would need to be trapped in the shock zone to attempt getting out. And he never even attempts it because he and his sis (spayed) has over an acre to play in (never bored). So the thought of accidents are low on my list.

I'm just scared that a snip too soon will limit his ability to work (pull, agility, and play).

And I'm scare that it will change him for the worse (less focus, change in personality).

Any other opinions out there?
David

If you are going to do agility, it doesn't matter either way.

The only major concerns you will need to take into consideration IMO are health, sex drive, and secondary sexual characteristics.

The sex drive thing can be a pain if there are females in heat and bitchy males are funny lookin'. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


The characteristics that come with sexual maturity that could affect working ability would only really affect aggression and combat drives IMO. Don't need those for agility.

If he's a happy puppy and you neuter him then he will stay a happy puppy. Testosterone and other hormone surges that come with sexual maturity will cause him to change. SchH trainers wait until sexual maturity because they want their dogs to develop agression, which you may find desirable or underisable.

Neutering before maturity will cause the growth plates to close later, resulting in a leggier dog that isn't filled out as much. This might be an advantage in agility. The joints and growth plates are different, so it shouldn't effect the joints.

If you were doing weight pulling early neutering might have some effect, but just for pulling you around it shouldn't. I have seen many neutered dogs that could pull their owners over just fine <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> .

It's a personal decision. Decide what you want, and then try to figure out when to neuter him to get what is most important to you.

My SAR team requires our dogs to be spayed/nutered within 6 months of certifacation (18-24 months) I'm going to wait with my GSD as long as possable only because I like the secondary male sex characteristics. Bigger head, more masculine look over all. Some of the (early) nuetered males on our team look like long legged coyotes. Plus I see to some dogs, cut young, that pee all over their front legs. My JRT was nuetered after he fathered a litter. He still tries to pee higher, farther, faster than every dog he meets :rolleyes: .

And two of the dogs (nuetered) on the team are very active in agility.

Neutering in general doesn't improve on any issues/problems nor change personality or temperament. Personality is molded by the environment and temperament is genetic. I am certainly in favor of neutering IF there are medical reasons or conditions which warrant it but otherwise see no advantages to it.

In fact I remember a friend of mine who had a GSD and neutered him at a year of age. This dog still bred her female (neutered!) and tied every heat and was doing this until 10 years of age. He still marked, drooled, 'chattered', and was dominant and 'studly' whenever he smelled a female in season and would fight with other males. This wasn't an acception as I have heard of this several times from other sources on other boards/lists.

I doubt that neutering is going to change his focus, however; there are many who believe that testosterone is linked to drive. Vets promoting neutering is to be expected (and rightfully so) as 90% of their clientele are PET owners and neutering reduces the possibilities of accidental breedings and 'homeless dogs'. It's their ethical responsibility to help reduce overpopulation and increase awareness and pet ownership responsibility.

I, however am of the opinion that unless there is a medical condition/reason which warrants neutering, and your dog is healthy and you're happy with him and you're a responsible owner; then why FIX (pardon the pun) something that's not broke??


Just my .02 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />