For those of you that train both horses and dogs, or started off in horses and migrated to dogs, what are the similarites and differences between training the two species?

I grew up with horses, but I really can't remember doing a whole lot of training besides saddle breaking them for riding, and getting them use to the cattle.
Is the big difference between training the two come down to one animal having prey drive, and the other animal *being* prey?

It's definately harder to find a prong collar! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The fact that they're a prey animal plays a big role in their training.

Most of the trainers who saddle break horses will longe them, which is basically the hose running around the trainer in circles. Sometimes some incentive is needed...to crack the whip behind the horse if he's very lazy, something like that...but mostly, it's body language. If you're standing behind the horses's shoulder, it will continue to move forward...but if you get behind the shoulder the horse will keep coming inside the circle.

A dog would never longe like that. It just doesn't make sense to them. But with horses, it's a godsend. Horses are naturally very nervous of anything new...a saddle, for example. It's easiest to longe them with the saddle on, to get them used to it. If you throw a mini saddle, or say one of those doggy backpacks, on a dog's back, he won't really be bothred by it, and shouldn't be spooked. But with horses, everything is slow and steady.

Although, I notice some similarities. Say I'm trying to clip a horse's mane with electric clippers. The horse will be afraid at first, but then eventually will calm down, as long as you go very very slow. I know some dogs that have problems with clippers, or a dremel, and you have to go slowly with them, too, although there are lots of dogs who could care less about a dremel, regardless of how quickly it's introduced, it doesn't bother them.

I guess horses are just hard-wired to be so suspicious of things, plus they are a lot bigger and it doesn't take much for a horse to nail you and seriously injure you, so you need to be extra careful.

I also haven't met a lot of horses that will work just to please you. For food, maybe. But a horse *generally* isn't going to come when you call him in from the pasture just because you ask him to.

But horses are characters...I've had horses that would go after you or try to buck you off if you tried to correct them unfairly (and sometimes if the correction was just...), and horses that would just stand there and take it.

I think horses are somewhat harder to train, because you need to learn how they think, and get them to WANT to do what you want them to do. A lot of dogs will do what you ask, or are trying to teach them, just because they love a kind word or treat. Almost anyone can teach a dog to sit, whatever method they use, be it the right or wrong one, but it takes practice to longe a trained horse...and trying to teach a green horse to longe is rough!

In seminars we've often talked about differences in training approaches between people who started with horses and people who start with dogs.

I think the single, most profound, thing I brought from horse training to dogs was the idea that the release is both reward and the tell to the animal that it's doing things right.

Right up there was never to ask for exactly the same thing when the animal has just given you the response you wanted -- for instance -- if training eye contact, and I get it, I release. Next time I will ask for longer eye contact, contact with motion, whatever, but to ask for the same thing over and over when done correctly is asking for confusion. I think I'm making sense.

We notice that dog people tend to push-punch-pull dogs in very physically uneconomical ways, where horse people are physical, but do it with economy because they are practiced in "push here, it moves there". Working with horses, I think, is what taught me to stay out of prolonged physical battles with my dog. Physical battles with 1500 lb animals are not ones where anybody wins. I'm just tooooo ooold for that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Horse people tend to touch more behind the neck on their dogs. Some dog-only people don't seem to recognize the value of contact (for praise or otherwise) with the dog's body. Maybe because they tend not to see "dog as livestock", and feel funny "groping" the dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Oh good lord! What does that make me? I grope my dogs all the time! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, I do spend significant time with them, handling their bodies, legs, tails.... I thought it was good socialization!

Actually, I was always taught with horses to keep your hands on their bodies so they know where you are - minimizes the risk of being stepped on or kicked. It just makes sense to me - when I am moving around a horse to keep close contact. I'm not talking about any wild beasts, here - just horses I know! I guess the same idea has migrated to my handling of dogs - I am very hands-on with them, too.

Hi, I'm new to this board, but I will add my 2 cents about dogs vs horses & training. I have ridden horses since I was 7 yrs old & the horse that I have now, I have had for 15 yrs. I got him as an almost 5yr old with very little training. His is a big almost 17h horse with a pronounced heard-leader mentality. He is very strong willed & has the aggressive attitude to back it up. I don't feel that there is a big difference in training horses & dogs. They both respond to positive reinforcement. I agree that horse people for the most part due tend to be more hands on than many dog people. I do also agree with the fact that release is a way of communicating a correct response with both horses & dogs.That may be because with horses you train with touch more than any other means of communication other than body language. Horses are VERY sensitive to touch. After all they are 1200 + lbs of tough skinned animal & can feel a little tiny fly land on them. I do not agree with the post that says that a horse will not do what you ask out of love. My horse will come when called from the other end of an 8 acre field. He will & has gotten us out of some pretty tight scrapes ridding x-country over 4 ft. stone walls & fences. He has also protected me from other hoses in a field that have tried to be aggressive toward me. They are capable of the same kind of love & caring as any dog. It's just that most people don't have the experience with them, especialy a individual horse over years of time to see this. I have spent almost every day with my horse since I have had him until recently, as he is now aged & connot work as hard as he could in the past. Just thought I'd add my say. I also have Leerburg GSD bitch that is just 6 1/2 months old & I am finding that many of the training issuse & solutions that I used on my young horse when he was a baby work well with her too.

I guess no one here is as nuts as I am... I've taught my dog to lunge. He loves it. However, he does it holding the end of the lunge whip. I set up gymnastic lines for him (bounces, and such) and it has really developed his jumping ability for the agility ring. It trains collection and develops scope. He used to jump very flat and risked knocked bars, but he has now learned to jump nice and round. Plus it's fun and great exercise for him. Of course, I only do it after the neighbors have gone to work! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Jackie, sweet!!! You brought back some memories!

I lounged my dobies and greyhounds. It was great for the greys when they came off the track. They were hard sprinters, but had almost no endurnace (all twitch). Everything you say is true, it's such a difference to see a dog that moves in a collected manner.

I built doggie cavaletti from pvc, very light and cheap. There was an article in front and finish maybe 15 years ago by somebody who did the same.

I used a lure to keep them moving too, either rabbit fur or a clump of pheasant feathers on a whip. We used to the motorized reel line with garbage bags on it and the same cavaletti to introduce the hounds to the idea of obstacles on field courses too. Hard runners off the track where so prone to injury in open field because they were used to that groomed surface.

My GSD pup is so body insensitive and prey crazy I'm not sure she wouldn't just crash into the cavaletti and care less :rolleyes: but maybe if I bungie them so they give but won't just fly out of the way?

Aw who cares about those neighbors anyway <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Will i grew up showing horses and working with them. Training dogs is simalar in that using basic out lines for training adapting the training to the animal (what works for one doesnt work for another) making 90 day wonders doesnt produce long lasting sound animals