Fairly new poster to the board so I'm not sure which area to place this in. I'm looking for advice on my 12 month old Xero z PS daughter. I purchased the dog at 6 months of age. She was under socialized, spending much of her past time in her kennel due to the breeders "lack of time". I have had her enrolled in obedience classes, taken her to a few SchH club meetings, as well as taken her to as many places outside of the home to socialize her. She's improved a lot, enters bldgs. with confidence, and no more hackles when she goes somewhere new. We have new problems though.

As far as obedience, I used food for motivation, as she has hardly any prey or ball drive. She normally works consistantly well on all of the basic commands. Last night while working her, we completed a recall, and I told her to go back into heel position. She sat there, looked me straight in the eyes, and basically said "make me". I gave her a slight correction, helped her into position, did some more heeling, and tried again. After repeating this process several times, each time correcting a little harder, she continued to give me this same look. Finally, I gave her a good solid correction, and she came at me with her teeth bared. I'm sure like many here, I don't put up with that kind of nonsense.

To say the least, I don't know where to go from here. I don't want to use food for the rest of her life. She yelps any time she gets a correction, even if its just a slight tug on the leash. This has just begun since I've cut back on using the food.

I've also heard that the Czech dogs mature late, but at this point, is she just challenging me? Sorry about the long post! Thanks in advance!

Sounds like she yelps because she knows you'll back off and use the food, shes manipulating you.

Some advice I got from a very good trainer for situations like this:

1 good correction is better than a 1000 nagging ones.

Thanks for the reply John - I haven't gone back to the food since she started doing this. I correct her until she does what I ask. She knows all of the commands...more or less just playing stupid. I guess my main concern is at this point, since she knows what I expect, do I start off with the firm correction or do what I have been doing and work up to it?

The correction should match the offense. If you harshly correct her for a minor offense you may be dodging the teeth again. Also, she is young and being too rough on her may have a permanent negative affect. If she has low drive you dont want to kill whatever she has left or you'll just end up with a poop machine.

socializing is not the same as bonding. if you don't bond with this dog, you just might have a battle with every correction.
be open to the possibility that she may have some temperment issues.
also, i think you're trying to "bring her up to speed" too quickly. ditto to everything howard said.

I agree with the fact you actually have a 'baby', even though she's a big'un! Asking too much, too fast, and pushing training is something we all do.

I'll tell you one thing with my dogs, if I don't make training basically 'fun' for my dogs, it's work. So if I ask them to do something, just cause I ask them, and then MAKE them, there is no 'payoff' for them, they react slow (or not at all) shut down, don't want to train anymore, and start avoiding training. Rather than loving when the leash/collar comes out. Tearing to me in a 'come', hopping joyfully to the 'heel' from the 'front' etc.

So I use food, I use toys, I use TONS of praise, I STOP training BEFORE the dog wants to. And I think that is SO important. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Because if they are having fun as part of the 'team' and looking forward to the breaks/play and break/treats, and I end the game, it keeps them loving the game and wanting to start up again. I ALWAYS end with the dog doing something BRILLIANT, even if the training session didn't actually go the way I wanted. If I confused my poor dog (my fault!!!!), I need to have her do something I KNOW she knows (how about a 'sit'?) have the game of tug, and END THE SESSION FOR THE DAY.

And then I need to think of a DIFFERENT way to teach the 'whatever' we were having problems with. A good handler asks for helps, reads info, and tries different things with different dogs. One of the reasons I go to good trainers is because their 'bag of tricks' is LOADED with these hints and methods.

I want my dogs to have 'drive' and 'joy' and WANT to learn and LEARN FROM ME. If that's not happening I need to re-evaluate and change something. If you have the drive, and the joy, and your MAIN GOAL is to keep that, all the rest of the 'obedience' will follow because your dog is 100% in 'the game' with you.

Or not.

First of all, thank you for all of the replies.

So at this point, I should just continue using food for every exercise? I understand the correction should match the offense comment, but at what point are the corrections necessary. I'm aware that she's still a baby...and I'm very forgiving if she even attempts to do the exercise..but at these moments of stubborness..should I continue to help with food or correct?

As far as making training fun - we always have. She has always loved doing obedience (heeling, sit, recall & finish is what we do right now), and we always end on a good note. These problems just started, and I wanted to figure out where the mistake was asap!

Thanks again!

you know, jessica, there are people who have trained dogs completely with positive and motivational methods. the dog simply gets no reward for being incorrect. they soon learn that they must be correct in order to win the reward. if i were you, i wouldn't even be worried about corrections at this point - especially since they produced adverse reactions. ultimately, you will have to decide, but your dog might be a candidate for 100% motivational training. you did not indicate this, but i am wondering if you feel pressured to "correct" by the group you are training with. if this is the case, they should go fly a kite. there is a time and place for aggression, but directed toward you......never.

Originally posted by Jessica Ibarra:
First of all, thank you for all of the replies.

So at this point, I should just continue using food for every exercise? I understand the correction should match the offense comment, but at what point are the corrections necessary. I'm aware that she's still a baby...and I'm very forgiving if she even attempts to do the exercise..but at these moments of stubborness..should I continue to help with food or correct?

As far as making training fun - we always have. She has always loved doing obedience (heeling, sit, recall & finish is what we do right now), and we always end on a good note. These problems just started, and I wanted to figure out where the mistake was asap!

Thanks again! Jessica,

I agree 100% with Howard and Patricia. My wife's dog has some similarities in pedigree as your girl. His dam (Unit Gymor) is a half sib to Xero and his sire is Alk v Osterburg Quell. He was slow to mature both physically and mentally. He is very smart and able to learn quickly, but remain immature for a long time. We are fortunate with him as he has good balanced drives; great food drive, outstanding retrieve, good prey and defense. He is very handler sensitive and really required bonding time to develop and advance in training, this may be the case (bonding) with your female. If she generally does good OB, then drop the OB for a while or cut it back to maybe once a week. Do more tracking and/or protection with little bits of OB inserted for control.

John, Good, sound advice