I own a 16 month GSD and a 11 week gsd both are from show lines but i dont show them and i dont intend to. I trian them in England at a schutzund club which houses some of the best working dogs in England, there is currently one dog from the camp that qualified this year for the WUSV World Championship Team. The older dog has been training in this for about 3 months - and has progressed really well, before this he did some basic obediance classes but quickly grew bored of these and didnt do that well, but in just 3 months trianing in schutzhund his obediance is fantastic and his protection work is also going well though he does lack speed, he weighs in at the moment at 40kg - though he is on a diet to lose some weight - the added weight was contributed to by a couple of courses of steroids which seemed to bulk him up, he had a bad ear infection. He progressed on to the sleeve really fast, he really does have high drive. The younger one was bought intentially to train in schutzhund and has already began his quest, the helper is more than impressed with his v high prey drive and boldness, and his ability to learn. Mine are the only show dogs at this club, the rest are working lines. I bought him from a show line simply because i like these dogs and im not after breaking any records. My question is this - do you think the pup with the correct training and encouragemnt could do well in this sport, he has high drive, lots of cofidence and is dominent by nature - he gets trained every single day rain or shine, and we have access to 2 amazing helpers - both of which have quailified their dogs for the world champioships in previous years.

there are always exceptions to every generalization. Yes, there are some show dogs who do the work nicely. The problem is that these are not the qualities that are high on the priority list for most show breeders, they come after things like pigment, angles of A-B-C-D-Etc, etc, pigment, ear set, pigment, toe height, pigment - you get the picture....most of the dogs I have personally seen who do have more than expected workign ability from show lines would probably go SG or DID go SG and thus were discarded from the show line breeding kennels. We have a super powerful,serious showline male in our club....from the Ukraine - 5 generations before a German kennel name shows up, and the dog is a coat...who is going to breed to this dog with a showline female??? If the dog is not going to go VA or high V, they just aren't deemed valuable enough to keep by serious showline breeders seems to be the methodology...

With good training, decent dogs of many breeds can get schutzhund titles - I have seen Airedales, Boxers and Labs doing schuthzund. As you seem to be in a group of good trainers, it stands to reason that you should be able to get your dogs titled. Whether they will be competitive in higher competition is another ball game.

Amen.

You just perfectly explained why working breeds are split in two. Breeders look for different things so they end up with different things.

I have also seen show GSD that were pretty strong. But they weren't top show dogs, and no show breeder used them, as they should have, so they were lost for the breed.

As long as you enjoy training the dog, that's the perfect dog for you.

Pedro.

Like i said im not into breaking any records, at the end of the day a dogs a dog and if it works it works, surely not every single dog from a working line is an amazing worker,
I know this for a fact.
just because my dogs are from show lines it doesnt mean its their destiny to get shown. Im not particularly interested in breeding them, so i really dont consider them as 'lost for the breed' they go out on the feild and work hard, so whats the harm? Who knows how well they'll do!

If the dogs are having fun, doing well, and the training is progressing, I would absolutely continue. Training and learning is only a good thing for your dogs both mentally and physically.

Tim I agree with the others keep up the training compete if you want. The end results no matter how far you go will be a discipline and well behave dog and a well informed owner.

Some Show dogs do have the right drive, though the working line seems to have this more dominate traits.

Good luck in your training. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the support, i will carry on training as the dogs love it and so do I. Who knows, they may even rock the schutzhund world! :-)

Tim it sounds like your dogs seem to really likes the protection stage of Schd, how far along are you here? Can he do the courage test?

And how is their tracking skills? These long drills really test the tenacity of a dog.

Good luck, and keep training. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hi Don
The elest, Neo, Has only been training in this for about 3 months maybe 4, but he gets trained 3 times a week at the club and then by my wife and I inbetween these times - at the moment he's learning to search 2 blinds find the helper and bark and hold - which hes doing well - his bark is fantastic and he looks convincing - and has a good bite when he takes the sleeve. Also he does well at the pursuit of the helper from the blind - with a good grip and when the helper goes into the drive the dog doesnt back down one bit even when taking hits from the stick, which isnt bad for relative newstarter. And also his 'out' is spot on. Thats about as far as hes got in protection. His obediance at this stage is fantastic - heel work is great - on and off the lead, walking sit and walking stand are good - retrieves over the 1m hurdle, at this time just for a cong. Down stays for as long as you want, recall is good, and is currently learning the send away. He hasnt done any tracking work yet but will be soon.
I dont know what a courage test is, but he hasnt done one, could you please explain to me what this is? Hes obviously still got a long long way to go - but so far he seems to be showing good promise.
The pup at this time is just on the rag but is showing great drive, hes also a v confident dog and nothing hes been exposed to yet (and hes been thourally socialised) has phased him, the helper says that he is doing everything that could be expected of him at this time, and is impreseed with him.
I am a newcomer to this sport so i dont pretend to be an expert, but in the short time ive been involved ive consumed as much information as possible and tried to get a good knowledge of the sport. Im also training to be a helper, which i enjoy very much.

Tim

Thats damn good, he must be from German Show dog side of the tree, he couldn't be American Show dog side! He sounds soild good job, Neo.

The pup sounds solid too, are they from the same Sire and Dame? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />