I had something happen the other night that really got my attention, and has me questioning a bit. I was sitting out back on the porch and had Luke on a 30 yd lead, it was pitch black outside as the light only makes the bugs come so I leave it off. Anyway, there are kids playing hide and go seek and this 15 year old ( big kid) comes running through the yard. Luke knows most of the kids in the neighborhood but does not know this particular kid. Luke sees the movement and growls as he takes off towards it. I got smart and looped the lead around a pole that is sunk into the concrete so that he'd hit the end of it right as I told him NO and tell him to come back. I was NOT foreseeing the show of aggression that followed. Luke got to the end of the lead right as I said NO, that part went good. BUT, he then realized that this was someone that he did not know, was running, and he then lunged again in a VERY different manner, snapping his jaws shut about 1ft in front of the kid's face. I called him out and made him come to me and then put him in a down/stay. I had the kid walk up to him and pet him so that they were introduced. Luke was fine with this, was tickled to meet the kid. My question is this, is this "normal", he is now 11months old, and about 90 lbs, he has been showing signs that his dominance in his territory is becoming alot more pronounced, but he had not shown anything like this before. He loves my kids, and is VERY tolerant of the neighborhood kids. He is a big baby and wants to play with them but is never rough other than an occasional nip on my kids when he wants his belly rubbed, and that gets corrected. He will tolerate other dogs in public, but gets crazy if my 5 yr old touches another dog, or if the dog comes near the house. Movement does set him off a bit so I'm guessing that the prey drive is there too, as this incident that has me questioning involved someone "running", the same type of thing would not have happened had the kid not been running. I know this because it has happened and he just walked out and checked who it was, if he did not know the kid then he'd bark at first and then I'd tell him it was ok and he'd lick the kid. Also one other oddity, he will not accept food from people. My neighbor who he sees all the time offered him a biscuit out of the same bag that my daughter get his treats from, and he simply drops it and won't touch it again, but my daughter gives him the exact same treat and he is fine with that. Any advice that you might give would be greatly appreciated.

Please don't think that I'm an idiot here. I try to stay ahead of the dog and make sure that my family is educated about prey drives and what to sort of expect from Luke. My point is that it has been a while since I have had a GSD, I am still not quite sure of the lines involved with this dog. New situations don't rattle him, he is calm, confident, and obedient for a young dog, but this recent display at this age of 11 months has given me some concerns, and is causing me to re-evaluate how it is that I deal with him, and in which direction to go with his training. I do not know for sure if it was simply a bluff on his part, or if he actually was going to carry the charge through. I have had some interactions with MWDs being in the military and have seen some very good MWD work on the street. Being a complete novice, this looked pretty real to me though. I have always thought that this type of aggressive behavior did not show up until they matured, if then. So I am now having questions as to his temperment, I have read a few posts from Ed on here in which he stated that at around this age the dog ought not to be showing this type of behavior yet, everyone should be his friend, or so he still ought to see them as such. I may have read them wrong but I'm still asking to make sure.
Also the issue of treats also happened at the base vet's office come to think of it, he refused the treat from the vet too, would not touch it again. Is this also "normal" ? He was not openly distrustful of these people, was polite, liked being petted by these people, just would not accept food from them is all.

while its very nice to have a dog that loves everyone and welcomes them into his home, it doesn't make for a very good watch dog or family protector. if luke really isn't what you're looking for in a dog, maybe it would be better to place him where his natural aggression can be used constructively. it has been my experience that a young male's hormones are really kicking in by the time he is a year old, however that doesn't mean he has any kind of control over himself. rather like a 12 yr. old human. if you would rather keep him, then he will have to learn the "rules." what's acceptable and what's not. personally, i prefer the dog who is suspicious of strangers. it just means you have to keep an eye on them so no one gets hurt. we've had people in and out of here over the years, buying eggs, goats, dogs, rabbits....most of the time there is no problem, but occasionally we have a "customer" who bears watching and i sure feel alot better with a serious dog at my side. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Patricia,
Thank you for answering my post. Don't get me wrong,I like him, and this what we had wanted, I was just being cautious because I was a bit suprised to see it kicking in this early. I was looking more for advice as to the "where do I go from here? and is this normal for this age?" So this is good, and normal? Outstanding.
He does understand what "out" means as I have continually worked with him on this in anticipation of this type of eventuality, but I will go ahead and start the testing and bitework to get control of him so that he understands the rules. He is the smartest dog that I have seen at this age, I mean "problem solving smart" as he will literally re-arrange his environment to suit himself. My German Wirehaired Pointers were not that quick, they were smart but not like this.

there are other people on this board that are better qualified to give you advice about your situation. infact, if anne kent doesn't hop in here, i would strongly suggest you p.m. her or send her an e-mail. i have been giving your dog some serious thought and just based on what you have written, i see luke as being at a critical point in his development.....a crossroads. he has the potential to become a fine dog or become a real problem. schutzhund dog or family pet, but not both (at this time). his drives are needing to be channeled properly. for the safety of your children, i would just add this: make sure he sees the ball, frisbee, toy, etc as the prey item and not the child. the food refusal is a good thing. if all dogs would refuse food from strangers, there would be fewer poisonings. since he does obey your commands, he must view you as the pack leader, but i don't see this dog being content with being at the bottom of the pack order. just guessing, but i would not be surprised if he has established himself as #2. and that can work just fine as long as he follows the rules. best of luck.

To me, Luke sounds like a great dog with a lot of heart and a natural sense of responsibility and ownership for his people and home. Believe me, that's not that common in dogs who weren't bred for the work. The reason it's not common is that a dog with that kind of heart is more responsibility that most of your "average" citizens want to have.

If you think about it, there's a reason that silly, happy, love-everybody dogs are the norm here, and that most of the guarding breeds won't guard and the herding breeds won't herd. Most people don't want a dog that is strong enough to make the decision to take care of you on his own.

So you have a responsibility to him. First, to teach him solid obedience, especially to hold a down-stay in the face of strong temptation (prey situations), and to look to you as his boss. But also realize that he sounds like a dog with dignity who will forge a partnership with you. Expect him to ask for and trade opinions with you. Expect him to obey, but don't beat him up for that -- let him think thing through.

Your second responsibility to him is going to be that you have to protect him from idiots. I would no sooner walk up and pet another guy's dog than they would walk up and grope his wife's butt. Most people don't seem to understand that it's rude, and that the dog might not welcome being groped (petted). I ask people if they'd just come up and sit on the hood of my car -- and just why should my dog be any different?

My girl is goofy-happy, fixated, and friendly with any kids, but would really, really prefer that adults outside the family keep their hands to themselves.

And third, because you know he has courage and heart, and will take the initiative and use his best judgment to protect your interests, you have to protect him from situations where his judgment is pretty much bound to be wrong, but you won't be around to guide him. That means crating him when you aren't home, or can't focus on what he's doing and thinking. It means you can't leave him alone in the yard, especially with kids running, horsing around or squabbling. Really drill it into the kids that if friends are over, somebody adult has to crate the dog for them. My sons are in their 20's, and grew up with high defense / hig prey drive dogs, and this kept them and their friends safe and welcome in the house and yard.

As he gets older, and you've trained him, his judgement will be better. Right now he's a kid who's trying his best to do what he thinks is right. He needs to know that when you are there, the "right" thing is what YOU tell him to do. This dog will be work, because you'll have to anticipate things, set him up with situations to teach him what you expect.

You may need to revise what you expect from him. He may never be a hand-slut, and I wouldn't ask him to be anything but tolerant, and courteous when I ask for it. Holding a solid down around somebody he's suspicious of is a lot. I wouldn't ask him to be kissy with them.

I think he sounds like a great dog. Good luck!