Are Malinois taking the GSD out of Police work?
#68447 - 12/19/2004 12:38 PM |
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Is this true? Ive read how Malinois are the pref breed now in law enforcement bc of their smaller size, greater reaction time than a GS, and quickness.
I also read they are more sensitive though and tougher to handle.
Their face look like a GSD, the body is more slender imho. Grea tlooking dogs for sure.
Hercules Von Buscher
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Re: Are Malinois taking the GSD out of Police work?
[Re: Tim Portoulas ]
#68448 - 12/20/2004 04:56 AM |
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There are certainly more Malinois in the Police and Military these days than there were 10 years ago. Having said that I do not believe that they will totally replace the GSD.
In the UK there are two main breeders of Malinois for the Police and I have had the privelige of watching both train and seeing their dogs....as a breed they have a lot to recommend them - they are more agile than a GSD,at the moment their general health is better (especially hips) and it is estimated that you can get an extra 1-2 years extra service out of a Malinois before retiring it (a big plus to the money men).
The downside is their size and appearance....they don't command the respect that a German Shepherd or Rottweiler does - meaning that they might have to bite more often which,in these days means more lawsuits. The other thing is that now the Malionois is fashionable they will attract people interested in breeding for profit and the standard of the dogs could fall.
In my opinion - as someone who has a lot of contact with Police Dog Handlers/trainers in the UK - the German Shepherd is here to stay as a Police Dog but the Malinois is here to stay too. They are both great working dogs when properly bred and trained.
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Re: Are Malinois taking the GSD out of Police work?
[Re: Tim Portoulas ]
#68449 - 12/20/2004 08:05 AM |
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As far as the police business goes, you forgot to mention one other attribute of the Mal. That being availability. It's tougher to find GSD's as more and more venders are importing Mals.
DFrost
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Re: Are Malinois taking the GSD out of Police work?
[Re: Tim Portoulas ]
#68450 - 12/20/2004 12:01 PM |
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In the UK most Police trainers would be looking for German Shepherds first and there are still plenty of German Shepherds around plus a history of people breeding German Shepherds for Working Trials/Schutzhund/Police work.
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Re: Are Malinois taking the GSD out of Police work?
[Re: Tim Portoulas ]
#68451 - 12/20/2004 01:38 PM |
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Cost. . .Mals have been cheaper than GSDs. . .even though lately I've seen import prices going up on them as well as demand increases.
More buzz about Mals, so more people asking for them specifically.
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Re: Are Malinois taking the GSD out of Police work?
[Re: Tim Portoulas ]
#68452 - 12/20/2004 01:39 PM |
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Certainly true that the Mali's are up and coming accross the world.
In the early 80's it was a rare animal outside Holland and Belgium. Now they are everywhere and even in Germany comprise a very large portion of the police dogs.
I like my GSD's but came very close to going back to the Mal's for my new Patrol dog. I was fortunate to find a GSD to my liking.
The GSD breeders need to pull their collective heads out of their a$# and realize that all the titles, x-rays, shows, and politics in the world cannot make a working dog. That breeding highly driven dog to highly driven dog is the only way to make it work. A simple approach that has brought the Malinois from a obscure breed with questionable nerves in the 1960's to what is no doubt the most up and coming working dog ever.
As the WUSV mulls over new rules and working hard to spread the rule of the SV over all GSD people it continues to injur the working ability of its breed and alianate the ever shrinking working dog population within its ranks in favor of characatures of working dogs that obtain titles in the coffee shop or with firendly decoys and judges who haven't any interest in the dogs ability only whether it fits into the current fads of GSD fashion. The SV must have taken lessons from the AKC at some level.
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Re: Are Malinois taking the GSD out of Police work?
[Re: Tim Portoulas ]
#68453 - 12/20/2004 03:12 PM |
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I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mal top the list for law enforcement in the upcoming years. Because it seems to me that too many GSD handlers care mostly about racking up the points, and then use their scorebooks as a breed survey, basically.
Another reason, I think, is because of the GSD's popularity as a sport dog. The number of sport handlers far outweighs those who do real work. So the GSD's fate is clearly in the hands of sport people. On the other hand, there seems to be more of a balance with the Mal, probably because it's less popular, but also less likely to get in the hands of the wrong people.
I think GSD breeders need to think about that fate. Because if sport people have the upper-hand for the future, you have to worry about the GSD maintaining it's status in the work world.
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Re: Are Malinois taking the GSD out of Police work?
[Re: Tim Portoulas ]
#68454 - 12/20/2004 03:42 PM |
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When I read the posts about the Mals and the GSD, I can't help but to read between the lines and assume that most police handlers are too focused on winning trophy's or titles with their P.S.D.'s. An AKC or CKC champion does not guarantee a good potential police service dog. I think some depts have strayed away from the practical side of training dogs for the streets. Its fine to train to a National standard, but don't leave it at that; these dog's have so much potential. Our service has come so far over the past 10 years, mostly because we've set our own profiles, (similar to RCMP) and we've changed the the profiles over the years to make it a little bit more challenging for the handler and the dog. Who cares how many points the dog received - how mant suspects did he track? Train to catch the bad guys first, the trophies and awards will come later. Our service uses Mals, and we are not concerned if they command respect or how they look, they are a good working dog and have served us well.
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Re: Are Malinois taking the GSD out of Police work?
[Re: Tim Portoulas ]
#68455 - 12/20/2004 04:00 PM |
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Sorry Rob, but stop assuming -you're way off base, and judging that by your comments, I'd assume that you don't have much contact with the different PD's that deploy K-9 units around the U.S.
First off, I can not think of a single PD that would be the least impressed with an AKC Championship title on a dog - the *vast* majority of departments and handlers would consider that title worthless fluff, and very likely the sign of a weak dog ( notice how most good Patrol dogs are imports or 1st generation bred from an import? Departments and handlers know this ) And most departments don't give a flip if a dog is even registered, truth be told. Kevin can back me on that little item, I'd think.
Next, most departments won't even give a handler the required time to compete, much less any other type of backing for competition. That's just the way it is. I can't think of a department that puts winning trophy ahead of deployment of their K-9 unit. The K-9 handlers that I know that are lucky enough to compete all tend to have excellent felony arrest numbers with their K-9's. These aren't "point" dogs, as you've indicated, and to assume they are just shows a lack of experience with current Police K-9 useage.
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Re: Are Malinois taking the GSD out of Police work?
[Re: Tim Portoulas ]
#68456 - 12/20/2004 05:21 PM |
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I do ringsport and I can say this about a good mal, they want to work more than the shepherds hands down. Does'nt mean I don't like shepherds I have two, although the one that shouldn't work loves to and the one that should doesn't. My mal loves to do what I ask and will try all day to learn new stuff if I let him. I cannot beleive the difference. I have been training for a long time but this being my first mal I can tell you it's not even close.
I am smarter than my dog, your just not. |
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