Hello Everyone:
Strange incident happened at work and I wanted to get some feed back on what happened, it's long but I will try to keep it short as possible.
I was leaving the building at about 0200 and a K9 officer was exiting his vehicle to give his K9 a break, etc.
1. I was about 20-25 feet away from him, I thought he was going to wait for me to get into my vehicle or be a safe distance away before he let his dog out of the car, well that didn't happen.
2. The K9 comes at me full blast for a bite. The handler is saying, don't worry, he is fine he just wants to say hello, as I'm yelling at the handler to call off his dog???
3. As the dog is getting closer his handler gives him a down and a recall and of course the dog doesn't stop.
4. At about 5 feet away I raise my left arm since I had a fanny pack in it and shake it to try and direct the dog as he goes for the fanny pack I throw it (talk about great timing) and of course the dog goes for the fanny pack and I jump about 2-3 feet away to a garbage can and put some more distance between me and the dog. 5. The handler finally gets there and is of course full of the "sorry he has never done that before" thing and grabs the dog by the collar. 6. Then he says he wants me to come over and pet his dog - so he won't view me as a threat in the future. (I'm telling him hell no).
7. He releases the dog and he is coming at me (again) full blast, he calls the dog off from about 5-6 feet and the dogs hackles are up, snarling, he comes in but I'm rock solid, the dog bumps me a few times, but doesn't bite me.
8. As the handler approaches us to take the dog by the collar, the dog does a quick run from the handler and returns TO ME IN THE HEEL POSITION and give the handler a little snarl and growl.

He finally puts the dog away and we get into a pissing contest because I tell him, I'm not here for you to practice random call offs with you dog. Also I said that his dog had weak nerves because since there was no threat the dog was displaying major signs of sharpness/defense. Also I told him that I'm not sure, but I don't think its a good idea for handlers to have people pet and socialize their dogs. His thoughts are K9's can tell who are cops by the uniforms and if they have been exposed to other peoples scents/uniforms before? Any thoughts on this? Also, any thoughts on why the dog returned to me in the heel position and was displaying agression towareds his handler?
Regards,
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Brandon

If what you are saying is fact, not your view, and no matter what there are some issue's here, with this handler, this guy is a fool. There is no two ways about it. I would file a report (within your chain of command) and see what actions come from that.

If he did this to a civilian there would be a heavy law-suit I feel. I do not feel from what you have said that this guy is fit to handle a
K-9.

Furthermore, while it is hard to judge nerves over the net, I cannot understand what this guy was thinking.

Reading your post again, this guy has no clue on how to handle a K9, and I cannot speculate what the dog or his handler was thinking. This blows me away.

Hey:
I know, but I don't want to put him in a jam, and I want to try and solve things at our level. Besides I know nothing would happen to him he is golden. This is his 4th K-9 1st one retired, 2nd one ended up not engaging a suspect (now a K9 in a jail) 3rd one was bounced from the program since it bite 4 civillians over very similar incidents) and this dog #4 which he has had for about 9 months. I wanted to lay out the story for people to get an idea of the background, etc. My "primary" thoughts were what do other K9 handlers do regarding socializing their working K9's with their beat partners. I know for my department, the K9's are only suppose to taken out of the cars on leash unless the dogs are deployed in a felony apprehension. In almost 10 years on this dept, I've seen a K-9 on a leash in like 4-5 situations. I've seen handlers bring K9's everywhere from into the station, Comm Center, 7-11, loose in an area for potty breaks, lots of inconsistancies.
Regards
Brandon

Really the department has a good policy however it is not enforced. If this guy has done this before, and civilians have been biten due to negligence, (his own) then I doubt anyone is going to get through to him that this is not the way things are done.

He must be a golden for him to have gotten away with all he has, that is for sure.

You are in a rock and a hard place, you could try and explain to him that you are not keen on dogs, so unless there is a real reason, if he could keep his on leash.

As far as people petting the dogs, this depends on the department and the dog. I know of departments that only have certain dogs just for PR, and the rest are never (are not suppose to) be touched by the public. I really see no reason in letting everyone touch a full grown dog (civilian or officer) It only opens up the door for liabilty in my view. Someone could go to pet a dog, raise there hand and the dog interprets it as a threat. This is possiable depending on the dog. Some people like to really pet and hug a dog; some dogs do not like that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

BC

The handler did a very stupid thing. I agree with you about not wanting to jam him up. Speak with another handler in the canine unit and express your concern with him. you might even, now that things have calmed down talk to the handler again and express your concerns and let the handler know you will not tolerate that again. speaking with another member of the canine unit won't get him jammed but it will make him stop and think about how stupid an act it was on his part.

DFrost

Sounds fairly safe to say this guy doesn't have a lot going on upstairs based upon this incident and past conduct. Just curious, from where is your dep't getting its dogs? with 4 prob dogs for this handler is it just a handler problem, training problem, or do you simply not have the proper dogs?

Also, not following your dep'ts internal guidelines for when a psd may be off leash is just begging for a lawsuit when one bites the wrong person. I can just see it:

P's atty: officer, the policy at your department is that all psd must be on leash except when making a felony arrest

officer: that's the policy

P's atty: Now, when fido tore the face off of the plaintiff (9 year old girl) you weren't arresting her for a felony were you.

officer: no, i guess not

p's atty: in fact, you were getting a cup of coffee and checking out the latest edition of playboy, weren't you.

officer: well, umm, i'm not really sure.

p's atty; and at that time, fido was off leash and running amuck.

officer: well, i thought he was sitting with me, but i guess i was distracted, (you should see ms. may!)

p's atty: so you weren't following your dept policy and, in fact, almost never follow policy.

officer: welllll

p's atty: in fact, my client, (pointing to severely mauled and disfigured girl crying her eyes out) was only mauled because your policy is to not follow dep't policy and to do as you please.

etc etc etc.

net result: cha-ching! and then no more k9 program.

sorry about the length of the post, but stupidity like this makes me crazy! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

This story is nutzo.

Did the dog come to you in a guard/transport, not a heel. Was he growling at you and looking to the handler for a bite command? That would be my guess for the heel crap.

BC... you obviously have some knowledge about dog training and it sounds like you might be interested in a K9 position. Any chance that the K9 handler perceives you as a threat or "a wanna be know it all" schutzhund type?

I note that you label this handler as a veteran who is "golden"... which probably means he doesn't have a history of unjustified bites. Is it possible he was "messing with you?"

Hello:
First of all, thanks for all of the input and suggestions. Regarding the positioning of the dog, the dog returned to me on the left side (heel position) but was continuing to bump me, he was focused on his handler and not looking at me, but as the handler approached us, the dog gave a growl and snarl and quick nip at him. We get most of our dogs via Denmark and up until the last year or so, you had to purchase your own dog. Of course you get what you pay for, and I'm not a policy maker, I'm just a spoke in the wheel and low man on the totum pole (for the moment). I am the first to say that our program once was pretty strong, but IMHO the dept's training has not evolved and progressed with the new ideas and training in the last say 5-7 years or so. Most of the training is done with compulsion. One of the problems that I see is you have to be very open minded with training, it always evolves and there are always different ways to get desired results. But you also have to face the facts and there are a lot of "this is going to be done this way/my way - or take the highway." I'm not talking about quick fixes and gimmicks, but more like developing prey and fight drives which takes time over pushing a dog into aggression via avoidance. Before I get ahead of myself, I should probably drop my $5 definations of drives and stuff like that. Basically, to me, if a dog who is a service K9 with almost a year of active service (who is a find and bark vs. a find and bite) who aggressively engages a neutral subject who isn't possing a threat (or even physically moving) with raised hackles and fearful posture is displaying signs of weak nerves and a high level of sharpness. Giving him the benefit of a doubt, I don't think the handler was messing with me but perhaps wanted to show off his dog a little and it got out of hand. I did speak to another handler who is a friend of this guy and he is going to talk to him about it and get his perspective. But I do think that depts should encourage seminars with seasoned professionals (like some on this board).
Regards,
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Brandon