Anyone ever heard of Rattle Snake training? I once saw a flier at my Vet's about Rattle Snake training. I remember asking someone about it and they said they use some kind of a mechanical snake.

Occasionally, I run into rattlers on my walks with my pup. He is always on leash, but occasionally I will let him run free when no one is around, but I am very worried as I have run into some rattlers lately. Fortunately, both times this happened he was on leash, but I almost didn't notice the snake in the middle of the trail - I thought it was a stick until we got within 3 or 4 feet.

DOes this training work? The times I have run into rattlers they didn't even rattle, just slowly moved off trail after I threw rocks at them. I am assuming the mechanical snakes have a rattle and the dogs learn to leave the rattling things alone?

I have heard that a large part of coyotes diets are Rattlers. How do they manage to kill them without getting bitten.

I saw an episode on animal planet about rattlesnake training. They used an ecollar on med/high stim to give an startle to the dogs once they were close enough to smell or hear the snake (it was a real one). They walked up and when they looked at the snake or seemed curious, zap! and the dog would try to flee. The owners would act excited and run away with the dog and praise him as he ran. After a few practices in different locations around the property, one whiff of the snake in the air and the dog was on high alert ready to high tail it away from the rattler.
I think it's important to use a real snake vs. a mechanical snake because of the smell. It doesn't do any good to train them to react to the rattle when, like you said, half the snakes you see don't even rattle until you are right on top of them. By then, you could be close enough to get bit or even step on them which is a sure strike to you or your dog. Just make sure you find an experienced snake handler who knows what they are doing with a venomous snake and maybe call an ambulance to stand by where you are training- just incase anything should happen. Your not really going to have your dog or you be any closer than 5ft. away from the snake- but you never know. Better safe than sorry.

I've never done the training myself, but from the watching the show, it was mandatory training that ranchers and people who ventured into the country did with their dogs. The dogs on the show had never been through the training before and it really caused a reaction and probably instilled a good lesson about snakes in their memory. It couldn't hurt, right?
Hope this helps!
Alison Voore

Thanks. That make a lot more sense than a mechanical snake. I wonder if they can remove the venom glands and/or the fangs from a rattler?

It kinda sounds like this training would make the dog a little neurotic?????

I thought it would make the dog's reaction a little extreme also but I think they were concerned with the dog when he isn't with his owner and just wandering the property by himself. In your situation, maybe you could try to get the dog to bark at the snake and encourage running away less.

Yes, snake venom glands can be removed, but it can cause serious problems for the snake. How would you do with a significant part of your saliva glands removed? From what I understand, this can drop their value as display animals as well because it is disfiguring. Yes, you can remove a snake’s fangs, but they grow back.

Do you REALLY want to risk both your health and your dog’s health playing with venomous snakes? Far too many people who call themselves snake wranglers or experts are just people who like to play with snakes and get an ego boost showing off. Be VERY careful if you decide to trust someone with a snake around your dog. If you or you dog gets bit is there antivenin available? Does it work on the snake you are using? The latest antivenin is newer and may or may not work effectively on the snake you are using. It is also not cheap. Even if you do get antivenin, many snakes have necrotic bites and by the time you get help it can have already badly damaged your dog, especially if it took a bite to the face. If the venom is neurotoxic, you are in even more trouble.

Why don’t you just get a big rat or bull/pine snake and teach your dog that snakes are mean and should be left alone? Not that you or your dog won’t need some band aids afterwards, but the damage will be less.

Leave snakes alone and they will leave you alone too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't know much about this subject (I live nowhere near snake country), but I would never encourage my dog to bark at a rattler. It is just too risky the snake will strike. It is a painful way to die...

If the dog has been trained right with an ecollar, it won't matter if the the handler is there or not, because the dog associates the pain from the shock with the snake, not you. And yes, in order for the dog to be completely proofed, on or off lead, handler present or no, it must be pain from the ecollar, punishment level (The dog's punishment level, not what you think the dog's punishment level is). This would be the only instance where I could see the use of pain as a justifiable method of training. And your timing must be exquisite. I would enlist the help of hunting people, if I wanted to do it.

If the first few shocks are strong enough, you won't need the ecollar anymore anyway, because every time the dog smells a snake and gets out of the way, and doesn't get a shock, he thinks 'whew, if I move fast enough, I don't feel pain'. It reinforces itself.

The handlers run with the dog initially to bring the social and pack drives into the picture; 'if the bosses are running, that must be a bad sob', and to reinforce to the dog that it is the right thing to do, teach it the 'safe' distance, and to keep it from panicking (and you don't want the dog to panic, you just want it to get about, what, 30 ft away from the snake. A dog that thinks a snake is the Devil himself is not much use, you just want it to learn to turn around, and get out of its way).

If I ever lived near snakes such as the rattler, I would do it. The pain you inflict is much better than the pain of a snakebite, and resultant death. And your dog would serve as an early warning system. If all you see is a cloud of dust and a rapidly diminishing dog butt, you know there is a snake around.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Those are interesting points. I know nothing about this training.

I imagine someone who is doing rattlesnake training for dogs is more than just someone with ego problems trying show off around snakes. It is one thing to impersonate a snake wrangler, and another to run dog training classes for snake avoidance.

I am not going to buy a rat snake just to train my dog - although it is a pretty good idea. They are pretty nasty snakes? My wife would probably leave me if I brought a snake home. Plus, I don't really like snakes so then I'd have to find a new owner for it once i was done training with it.

One of my roommates when I was younger had a snake. Not my idea of an enjoyable pet.

As far as removing the venom and fangs for use in a snake that is used for training dogs - who cares if it will no longer be a good display snake? Seems like a good way to train your dog and prevent accidents.

Matt,
Have a look at Lou Castle's web site. I think it's LouCastle.com. He talked me through his protocol on just this type of training. It's been an excellent resource for my e-collar work.

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I imagine someone who is doing rattlesnake training for dogs is more than just someone with ego problems trying show off around snakes. It is one thing to impersonate a snake wrangler, and another to run dog training classes for snake avoidance.

You would be surprized...but do what you will with your dog.

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I am not going to buy a rat snake just to train my dog

Don't buy one. Borrow one <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I know someone whith a pet ratsnake used for educational stuff. His name is Facebiter.

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As far as removing the venom and fangs for use in a snake that is used for training dogs - who cares if it will no longer be a good display snake? Seems like a good way to train your dog and prevent accidents.

That was a more information than you requested, but if the snake is dead it is of no use to anyone.

What you do is your call, but I would strongly suggest you research this further.