Some of the police dogs I work with are arm oeiented,not sleeve oreiented but arm oriented.Ive done things like when they send them for the bite Ill have a blanket wrapped around my upper body so they cant see my arms or get to them.Some of the dogs will keep circling trying to to find an arm.
I have sleeves and a bite suit, I was interested in hearing some great ways to get them to target my back or legs with out even thinking twice about arms.I was thinking of back tieing the dogs and frustating them into leg bites.Im sure there are other ways too. All sugestions will be apreciated.

David,
I am having similar problem with my GSD, only targets outside arm, sleeve or not. He will not take an inner bite. Second working he finally went for the inner arm /chest. My trainer made quite a show, and I outed him before he slipped. I feel fairly comfortable we'll fix it, but it's like puppy training all over. I think it's partially training, but I'm told herding breeds have to be specifically trained to go inside.

David - I have used the method of targeting the dog to the upper middle of the back (middle of shoulder blades). What I have done is have the decoy (with bite suit) tuck their arms in close, but also having the decoy puff out some bite material in the upper back area. I start from from a short distance away, either with dog on leash or holding on to their collar. As I give the command - I at the same time pat the the area of the back I want the dog to target and pull up on the collar at the same time, to give the dog the idea he needs to jump a bit.

As the dog gets the idea, I slowly make my distances greater. This has worked for me.

Any dog will go to the inside if trained properly. I would put the dog on the line and work on leg bites specifically. Your decoy will be key on building the dog's confidence in leg work. Get the dog fired up enough and he will bite whatever's available! I think we all need to take a look at how we are training our dogs for police work to see if there is enough realism in our training. We see that the trend in officer training is realism... why arn't we doing this with our dogs? If you work the dog every time with a jute bite bar sleve it is only natural for the dog to become fixated on jute bite bar sleves. Remember... the post is the first place you want to take your dog when you see problems begin to surface...don't let it happen on the street.

Originally posted by david morris:
Some of the police dogs I work with are arm oeiented,not sleeve oreiented but arm oriented.Ive done things like when they send them for the bite Ill have a blanket wrapped around my upper body so they cant see my arms or get to them.Some of the dogs will keep circling trying to to find an arm.
I have sleeves and a bite suit, I was interested in hearing some great ways to get them to target my back or legs with out even thinking twice about arms.I was thinking of back tieing the dogs and frustating them into leg bites.Im sure there are other ways too. All sugestions will be apreciated. David,

As long as the dogs don’t have confidence problems it should be fairly easy for you to get them to target another part of the body. Addison’s method is a good one if you want teach the dog he can hit other targets center mass but I would do this with a muzzle while at the same time teach the dog to get leg-bites as Grubb outlined. There are a few reasons I say this:

1. Dog being creatures of opportunity will take what is there once trained away from arm conditioning. So one the dog learn it can hit the inside area it will give the right “feel” at the time of engagement.

2. The buy doing leg bites and muzzle work for reconditioning acceptable bite locations the dog continues to learn to bite once full and hard. If you do bite suit work the risk of shallow and repeated re-bites and or re-grips will translate into multiple bite wounds. Since one solid full mouth bite with grip will get the job done and with less trauma it seems the better choice of training to me. Some may disagree.
3. Consistent work is needed to recondition bite habits. If you do bite suit work to recondition and allow any bite some dogs (when under high stress) will go back to “Ol’ Faithful’ and go for the arm. All dogs under drive pressure tend toward areas of least resistance. Meaning they choose a path to either get the reward or reduce the stressor. It really depends on the dog and how he sees a street bite situation. Certainly there are some dogs working that are not as confident as they should be.

The combination of muzzle work to body builds street confidence better and safer. The leg bites recondition targeting areas and maintain bite discipline. You could use the bite suit occasionally to check on the progress of the targeting.

i would recommend ed's video training personal protection dogs if you want to train your dog for leg and back bites and to and from.
the video is very good and shows you how to leg bite and then to arm bite and back.

a very good video and my shepherd took to it quickly.

good luck
westleavale german shepherds

Shepherd breeds do what?? It is all habituation to biting a specific area.

Good video tape, Training Personal Protection Dogs.

This is a great reason to start your foundation bite work like I do, on a suit and a sleeve. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

We are not talking a novice dog here.

I agree bite location is habituation. I disagree using a suit to begin training because like bite location, how the dog is taught or allowed to bite is just as important.

The bite suit allows some shallow bites and few rewards for this bite. If the dog is not fully developed in prey you will get (on some dogs) a strong biting dog that hit and maybe conditioned to mouth or shallow bites even if he continues to hold.

Still in the begining I think it is better to use leg sleeve with a rip-away and bite sleeve first. My first priority is the level and calmness of the bite. Nothing fancy is needed just good work in prey. Targeting is easy to train later after.

Retraining the accepted bite location without thought to the drives and how it effects the dog is risky.

Well it comes back to the basics for me and the way I train I guess. Like I said I know some trainers don’t use anything other then a suit. Also few trainers work with dogs with no previous bite work.

I am not aiming at KNVP started dogs and I know most never get a sleeve reward. I think most KNVP titled dogs are hard core though again…SOME don’t bite full. Josh is again correct about the scoring in PD trials. Still the depth of the grip is an indication for confidence. I think I mentioned 'some dogs' would have problems but not all. I think it is fair to say not every working K-9 is a shinning example of a good police. At least what I want to see working the street.

If you don’t think so I don’t know what more I can do to convince you. As for me I would rather start a dog learning full bites and address problems as they happen. The consistent full bite relative to the dog’s age is a good indicator for increased defense work and fight drive building. It is a mile stone in training I don’t ignore. I agree the canines do the damage still I think the dog should bite full and hold.